' Wrote:I admit the phrasing "they made the technology" was a little unfortunate. However, my point was that they do not depend on anyone for that technology - it's in their genetic material, it's a function of their body. They didn't need the Daam K'Vosh to supply it after, they certainly don't need humans for it, they just need energy.
Actually, it was inferred in the campaign that the Nomads couldn't actually use any of that technology. Otherwise the human component would have been largely irrelevant and the Order would never have had the opportunity to open the hypergate.
Think of it this way: The Nomads were the gardeners, when the masters of the manor left, they had no way of getting inside the house.
All that's in their genetics is the ability to 'grow' their own biomechanical weapons and assimilate stuff. Suffice to say, I seriously doubt they could recreate any of the old Daam K'Vosh technology, more their own bastardised versions of such.
the primary idea of such features is : work vs. reward
work includes time and also efford. - these two can be substituted with more abstract "currencies" like credits.
what we wish is to have every faction to be required - is the same workload. - if the reward is worse - the workload should be adjusted appropriately - and likewise - if the reward is better - the workload needs to be increased accordingly. - regardless of the lore.
if we start balancing ( too much ) based on the lore - other factions can rightfully demand adjustments, too. so the lore and the background must be considered to be fully irrelevant for the matter of balance. ( so does the state of a faction [closed, open, highly controlled, lax] )
as far as i remember - there had been the idea of liquid cardamine to be used as fuel by nomads - and to have their equipment possibly being aquired slightly easier ( rather than the end result of a lengthy base building ) - but at a higher cost - or a lower efficiency. ( just cause you invent it doesn t mean you are the most awesome, very often someone copying the original can result in something superior )
* * * *
the question is
how can the nomads gain access to cloaks / jumps ( etc. ) at the SAME efford that others get it ... or an appropriate efford regarding the resulting reward. - for that - one needs to know how much it takes for a normal faction to build, maintain, protect, expand a base - to get the cloaking device ... and how much efford is involved in actually cloaking.
no faction is special - the workload must be equal to others.
' Wrote:the primary idea of such features is : work vs. reward
work includes time and also efford. - these two can be substituted with more abstract "currencies" like credits.
what we wish is to have every faction to be required - is the same workload. - if the reward is worse - the workload should be adjusted appropriately - and likewise - if the reward is better - the workload needs to be increased accordingly. - regardless of the lore.
if we start balancing ( too much ) based on the lore - other factions can rightfully demand adjustments, too. so the lore and the background must be considered to be fully irrelevant for the matter of balance. ( so does the state of a faction [closed, open, highly controlled, lax] )
as far as i remember - there had been the idea of liquid cardamine to be used as fuel by nomads - and to have their equipment possibly being aquired slightly easier ( rather than the end result of a lengthy base building ) - but at a higher cost - or a lower efficiency. ( just cause you invent it doesn t mean you are the most awesome, very often someone copying the original can result in something superior )
* * * *
the question is
how can the nomads gain access to cloaks / jumps ( etc. ) at the SAME efford that others get it ... or an appropriate efford regarding the resulting reward. - for that - one needs to know how much it takes for a normal faction to build, maintain, protect, expand a base - to get the cloaking device ... and how much efford is involved in actually cloaking.
no faction is special - the workload must be equal to others.
Congratulations for not reading the thread. And then we wonder why the dev team always screw up with community requests.
WE DON'T WANT EASY CLOAKS
WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO <span style="font-size:36pt;line-height:100%]BUY FUEL AND MOX ON A BASE WE CAN ACCESS
the idea of liquid cardamine was already considered. - if it was not included it was due to time or cause the concept was not ready yet - so patience ( and less caps-lock )
at no time it was suggested that you ( nomads ) want easy cloaks. - but what we must consider is how to give you cloaks that require the same efford.
much of that thread is "we want we want we want" - but there are only very few real concepts that fit the demand to be "fair" compared to the public factions.
all in all - there is NO need to get angry ( or write as if you are )
you may be surprised how much one can read the entire thread - and still ask for good concepts.
anyway - it is beneficial to stay calm ... and not to suggest that any blame was passed; especially when it was not, alley
edit: players are very often opportunistic - even if they don t know it. - sometimes they are idealistic - and very often they are simply unfair and reckless. what i tried to tell those who argue here is to come up with concepts that are FAIR. - to get such a concept it is very much appreciated to know how much work it takes for nomads to build and maintain a base - how much it takes to expand a base - and where the problems are.
only the nomad faction can really tell how much efford it takes to maintain a base that sells / produces their stuff. - if they do it at all... maybe they do it as humans and transfer the equipment. - all that must be considered. and it needs facts, not opinions.
if its "only" the fuel - the solution is indeed liquid cardamine to replace H-fuel ( since liquid cardamine does not decay - as far as i know ) - and maybe a more unstable variant to replace mox. - then there will be a need to adjust prices cause we would assume that the route to refill might be shorter than for many other factions that attempt to buy mox / h-fuel.
Sweet jesus of a pedestrian getting crushed by a banana shaped unijambist skyscraper.
I'm not angry at all, but I'm really, REALLY starting to wonder if the dev team is capable of listening to the community outside of their chatroom. There is no problem of equalty here, if we wanted to build a base, we could. It involves throwing roleplay out of the window and destroying the principles of "high standard rp that closed factions are to follow" cf admins for the "equalty balance" you seem to favor.
You forgot us. Cool, fine. That works. But don't start crapping me with loads of text that doesn't have anything to do with a fix we're asking for. We don't want a wow cool super elite special system for the nomads, we want the exact same thing as everyone else. Sure, having commodities that "fit" in roleplay would be better, but all in all if we could at least get the thing temporarily fixed that would be great.
We -ALL- know that if some transports are seen supplying nomads fuel (which is already stupid) we'll have the admins on us in the next fives minutes and community yelling "OMG WTF METAGAME WTF WTF WTF". What should we say ? "it's ok no rage" ?
Not to mention a temporary fix would be to add liquid cardamine as a usable fuel commodity, which is sold on dur shurrikun for an already ridiculously expensive price but at least would allow us to use this feature. What is it ? A few lines in the fl hook plugin to add LQ to usable fuel ? Probably.
' Wrote:normal system space = unlimited (light is abundant, so no drain)
Not to burst everyone's bubble, but cloaking makes the user invisible to the visible spectrum and, in the case of freelancer cloaking, to most of the electromagnetic spectrum (hyperspectral imaging ftw). Therefor the energy that would be collected is instead passing through it.
There's your inRP explanation for a cloaking limit.
Use a single FLhook variable. One function, one timer. Every second, modify X [font=Arial Narrow]Pseudocode ahead:
nomadCloakTimer(userid) { if(isNommie(userid) { if(isCloaked(userid)) { if(x <= 0) { decloak(userid); return 0; } x -= min((max(450,velocity(userid))/150)-50-min(velocity(userid)-1000,0), 0); }
else { x += 1; setTimerEx("nomadCloakTimer", 2000 - max(min(0, SensorRange(userid)), 10000)/10, userid); } return 1; }
And now that I am sober. and thinking somewhat clearly im going to tell you our terms because I am going to do something exstremly offensive to you Dev's and all you folks who "think" they know we should get.
I James Smith a Man 30 years and nearly 31 years of age who hath worked in video games since the tender age of 14 professionally and non professionally designing and relying on much smarter friends to do programming for him know how hard your job is. and not being paid or appreciated for it. Go cry to Moses.
I know how hard your silly little factions are to run.
I know how hard your silly server is to run.
I know the inherent "ideas" of balance and cuteness needed to make things equal nice and Utopian.
I know how flying indy is cooler then flying for a faction.
I was a teenager before I knew everything and now I know more now = Infinity +1 don't even start with me.. siddown etc etc etc.
I even know how smelly your socks are.
did that offend you? maybe you should consider this in future replies to subject considering other peoples business. at least before you apply some form of empathy.. and putting our shoes on at leas imaginary wise.
Cause if your not in my Skype channel labeled MirrorShare I know for a damn fact you have no idea what our job is.
As much As i LOVE seeing nomad subject pop up in the forums I hate repeating myself ad nausea. So im just going to say it now.AGAIN
Nomad cloaks if they used FUEL of ANY KIND would too powerful. Thats right the human cloaks? too uber. how can i tell? I've been seeing BARGES running around cloaked thier whole routes. MAJOR balancing disappoint folks. Good job.
Also Jump trading.. REHEHEEHHALLY? NICE ONE! Expect that to get worse with docking modules working.
I wouldn't dream of having anything that outbalanced in my faction. you know why? because my faction has a SINGULAR perpose.
and its "ruining your day."
Now jinx:
' Wrote:the primary idea of such features is : work vs. reward
work includes time and also efford. - these two can be substituted with more abstract "currencies" like credits.
Blahblablaha
no faction is special - the workload must be equal to others.
We do one thing. sink money (success or fail and from our other factions..human factions) into blowing you up. Its the simplest faction in the game. and were also the most left behind unless its a NERF. you see Im with IE understand that balancing or altering the way things are run system wide is important cause vanilla freelancer is... terribly onesided.
but.. Nerf the thing that's supposed to be a chaotic and terrorizing element in the community? ...Really? or maybe the dev team wants that title god sure knows most factions are terrified of you.
I refuse to buy any "story" where things where "considered" but alas "never made it". Or use a contrived third party system outside what would be considered "the norm" for an ADVANCED ALIEN RACE WHO HAS ONE JOB AND ONE JOB ONLY in game.. to make things dead. For free. no bounty.. just. die human scum.
And all cloaks will do? is makeup for a lot of these "nerfs". your right Im asking for this on merit. so you deal with that.
You prove how we are just as duty-full being everyone's freaking enemy to have to use "HUMAN" methods for "OUR" technology and ill give you a Nobel prize.
We dont trade so we dont abuse cloaks like trade factions are doing it.. we dont mine and make money.. we AREN'T EVERY FACTION THAT EXISTS FOR MONEY.. we want BLOOD we want TEARS.. (not bounty's not tolls not trade)
AND WE ARENT GOING TO START JUST TO HAVE YOUR STUPID TOYS deal with it. you can only.. ADMIT it makes sence. sure stomp around and fume all you want about us saying no we wont change we arent going to turn into stupid little pirates or traders or zoners or whatever the hell you humans wanna do were nomads we DO OUR thing.
We exist to kill you. and i already compromise that by being too soft in the fact that. I cant for the life of me just shoot a transport in cold blood. ...or rpers.
Cant. never have never could i ask my other nommies to try and THEY cant. so maybe where not evil enough? maybe thats why we don't deserve any "extra" help cause we aren't terrorist enough. I may accept that.
Hell I know keepers are a pariah I was one I know they were jerks but guess what..
This is K'hara Cloaks where talking about.
I banned the jerks from my em effing faction.. Myths about "gentleman's agreements" and "blow jobs" in dark alleyways need to stop here and NOW. I want us to focus on one thing. getting better equipment that makes sence for the nomads.
Heres what we should be. in a nutshell.
I dont want missles.. NOMAD MISSLES? that is the STUPIDEST crap ive EVER seen. Nomads have and are ENERGY.. thier CANNONS should be devistating three times that what you flesh-bags can pull off.
Shields? WHO THE HELL needs shields.. nomads shouldent have shields WERE ENERGY.. instead? our hulls should regenerate.. hell take HALF of our hitpoints away give us regenerating hulls and well still kill you for the fun of it? Deal?
Countermeasures? pfft screw that we can cloak and or Outmaneuver your silly metal dongs that blow up.
OR WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO on a whim. (though i have suggested a cool down timer of 10-15 minutes before we can re cloak in other threads.)
MINES! now thats a laugh.. there should be no nomad mines at all.. the wilde might like thier mines cd's and missles.. but thier half human.. and therefore.. need the help. *WINK WINK*
Jumpdrives? What you think the sunpopper took a bus? you think the osirus got its jumpdrive from goodwill? I personal dont care if we ever get a jumpdrive. free cloak with a cooldown timer accomplishes the same thing.
Carrier moduels? sure it would be CUTE to see mammy vomiting up 5 voidrunners in an attack but again i dont care for that mod either we dont need it.
In summary: know your role.
Cause we do. All to well. and i think thats the problem.
Hidamari Wrote:please remember its fictional, and we dont have any real aliens to compare the nomads to so.. there is no point trying to figure out all the inbetween parts since "magical space voodoo" seems to fit pretty well and has done for.... 10 years almost.
Just because it's fictional doesnt mean it has to be so unrealistic that it's obviously wrong and impossible. I'd rather play in a somewhat logical fictional universe than in a stupid fictional one.
Jan_Peters Wrote:Please apply some logic to your own thinking before making statements like this and presenting them as self-evident.
Please apply some logic to your own thinking before making statkements like this and presenting them as self-evident.
Jan_Peters Wrote:Are you really convinced it makes sense that Nomads depend on humans to supply technology that Nomads made in the first place and that Humans copied from them?
...
but I dare you to bring one good reason why nomads should need humans to supply their cloaks.
Duh? Did you play the single player?
Because that's EXACTLY what the nomads did there. They used humans to build their stuff.
Ok obviously you didn't play it or you have a VERY selective memory, so let me remind you:
The nomads built their Battleships with the help of Rheinlanders (and probably also with the help of the infected libertonians and kusarians). A lot of them were probably infected, but most were probably just following orders and had no idea what they were actually doing.
And would you like me to explain why the nomads, and not only nomads... but also you, me and almost everyone makes other people do their work for them (everyone except the people who live alone in the forest cut off from civilitaion, actually)?
Even if it's not impossible to do yourself... you make others do it because it's more convenient, and faster. Why plant weet, harvest it, mine some coal, build an oven, and bake bread, when you can just buy it in the supermarket? Same applies for nomads. There are billions of humans and dozens of planet economies. They mine, they harvest, they refine, they build.
All the nomads have to do is apply a tiny bit of trickery towards a few people, and they will have hundreds of thousands of humans working for them without knowing it.
Yes, it is a LOT easier for nomads to get stuff from humans than it is for them to do everything themselves.
Jan_Peters Wrote:If nomad cloaks should require fuel in the first place can be debated upon,
It's very gracious of you that you will allow debate on whether nomads should be able to cloak without fuel which basically makes them invincible because they will never run out of the fuel that they don't require.
Jan_Peters Wrote:"It can somehow be done the way it is" is not a reason.
It's a good reason for everyone else, except the nomads?
Why should nomad players have it easier than everyone else? Because they are so cool and l33t and better than everyone else? Maybe they should spend less time thinking about how awesome they are and how they should get more stuff for free, and more time thinking about how they play they game and fit into it IRP?
' Wrote:Just because it's fictional doesnt mean it has to be so unrealistic that it's obviously wrong and impossible. I'd rather play in a somewhat logical fictional universe than in a stupid fictional one.
You want to play in a logical and realistic universe? Why are you playing Freelancer then?
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