Zoner ID

[DAnvilFan]

I think that there is something quite pleasant about primarily seeing Zoner whales in the distant regions of the edge worlds. It gives the game a sense of visual diversity.

And applying any sort of political changes in faction relations (rep hacking Zoners to be hostile with etc etc), with the goal of balancing trading mechanics, is a very dubious approach. We know from vanilla lore that Zoners trade with House corporations to bring supplies back to Freeports. And we know from Discovery lore that there are Zoners that fly their Juggernauts and Whales and retain the mystery of their ships by sticking to the outer rims of Sirius.

What I am saying is: Laissez faire.

[Kal-el]

Zoners are neutral with all faction lawful and unlawful with the exceptions of nomads, phantoms, and a few others. They should be allowed to dock on all bases, it just strikes me as weird that you cannot dock on an unlawful base but the same unlawfuls can dock on the Freeports?

I also understand why they are limited to the size of ship they can fly because they are allowed to dock on more bases. Corporations are limited. Kusari and Bretonia cannot land on each others bases and it is the same for Rheinland and Liberty. Which limits their ability to trade.

However, just because someone can land on more bases does not mean that they make more money if allowed to have the same class of ship. It still takes time to fly from point A to point B. Most routes take time to run and guess what....you still cannot make more than maybe 30 million an hour.

Maybe it is just me, but I do not understand why limiting someone to the class of ship (3800 holds) or whatever because you see them fly to many of the bigger ships. Everyone on this server chooses to fly the ship they want and more than likely it is the one that makes them the most money unless by their id they are limited.

Let them land on all bases and if it is fair to limit the size of ship then so be it. I think it will give them more options when trading.

[Cannon]

I haven't seen this discussed in the previous posts. I think Dusty is saying

Pick one of:

a) Zoner ID: Not rep hacked. Dock almost anywhere. Unlimited ZOI. Cargo restricted. No 5k transport.
b) Zoner ID: Rep hacked. Unlimited ZOI. Retains 5k.

or more-or-less the current guard ID:
c) Zoner ID: No docking with house bases. Unlimited ZOI. Retains 5k.

Discuss the merits of a,b,c or a better option.

Using the argument of "in vanilla, zoners are neutral" is fine but i'll also note that in vanilla, zoners don't have capships or 5k transports so I guess there's a
d) Zoner ID: Not rep hacked. Dock almost anywhere. Unlimited ZOI. Cargo restricted. No transports or capships.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

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[Cannon]

One thing that might not be obvious to people is the reason for this request for comments...

Dusty is reviewing the ID system to:
- make to the system easier for players to use by simplifying the ID text.
- to improve balance between IDs
- remove restrictions if possible

Various IDs let you:
a) use capships
b) use 3k transports
c) use 5k transports
d) use ships from many factions
e) unlimited/big zoi
f) control the reputations
g) piracy (edit added)
h) bounties (edit added)

From a game development perspective, we seek to have all IDs be balanced so that no ID can do everything. If all IDs can do the same thing then there's no point having IDs. Everybody can use everything and go everywhere.

Thus if an ID allows (a)-(e) then it is quite likely that the (f) reputation would be severely rephacked to be fair to players with other IDs. This is just an example of balancing approach and isn't meant to represent the zoner ID argument.

Hope this ramble makes sense...comments...

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

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[Jinx]

the problem with that approach is...

it conflicts with roleplay lore.

sometimes - the lore speaks of factions that simply do have a lot more freedom than others - it is unfair - unfair for no reason.


an approach might be:

make all IDs exactly the way that roleplay demands them to be like - do NOT care for imbalances or anything. from that point, start making compromises towards gameplay - but be aware that with each step away from roleplay towards gameplay balance, you get estranged to the lore more and more - until the faction as it is described is not there anymore - as it was meant to be like.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Cannon]

In that case we could allow the zoners to go everywhere and use big ships but we'll get

Thing is that would send us back to the time of the long ago. Where Zoner whales roamed the stars in numbers unending, their mating calls of CANNOT PIRAST echoing through the void like the song of whiny angels hauling cardamine.

I guess we could solve this by giving the zoner factions their own IDs allowing them to "go everywhere and use big ships" but remove or severely nerf an independent zoner ID.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

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[Darkwing_Angel]

In that case we could allow the zoners to go everywhere and use big ships but we'll get
I guess we could solve this by giving the zoner factions their own IDs allowing them to "go everywhere and use big ships" but remove or severely nerf an independent zoner ID.

O yes Please... No more Stupid INDIE" Juggy WAR SHIPS" flying on every corner of border worlds and declaring NFZ in the middle of liberty....

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Signature made by Anomander

[Jinx]

the reason for nerfs are twofolded:

- acting as a guideline
- pre-emptive measure to avoid exploitation ( sometimes not pre-emptive but re-active )



we must also understand that "the bad old days, when zoner whales roamed around" is as subjective as "oh, my god, there are battleships everywhere" or "every BHG i see is flying a capital ship" ( old 4.84 myth )

reasons for players picking zoner ships might have been cause zoners enjoyed more freedom - but sometimes it wasn t the developement teams "fault" as such.... but also the players.


houses installed embargos that hindered their own trade factions to conduct trade - zoners did not do that. - but zoners cannot be made responsible for not castrating themselves as houses sometimes did.


one must be VERY clear ( statistics ) about how great the imbalance really is - cause what you perceive is not always what is there - but only what "you" see ( or want to see - or expect to see )



edit:

the zoner faction shall not be the first one to restrict certain shiptypes to only official factions - that goes against a fundamental idea of discovery that i learned to like since 4.82

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Cannon]

I remember checking the statistics on zoner whale usage although unfortunately I didn't write down the number. Most transports on the server were whales. Most of them were in house space.

I also remember attempting to pirate tens of them in California. They would generally either say:

"<nothing>"

"I admin, you banned"

"I am friend of admin, you banned"

"Player XXX has engaged cloaking device"

EDIT: I should add that it is okay for lots of people to use a particular ID or ship. Nothing wrong with this.

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Proud member of "the most paranoid group of people in the community"

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[Joe_le_Taxi]

ALthough I hardly know what people in this thread are talking about, I think a lot of problems would be solved if you gave the zoner carrier to the CR, and made the Zoner Juggy big and expensive and beautiful but abolutely horrible at doing damage to other ships (in other words.. give it crappy guns and keep the rest as is).