I'm not sure why this is so concerning. Freelancer lore hints at a future escalation between the two groups. Now granted this was mostly in reference to FP9 allowing Bounty Hunters to dock. With the NAP, that becomes problematic.
Thankfully in a multiplayer environment there are always new conflicts introduced by players through OORP grudges. Which are of course completely natural. But my point is that a war between the two parties is nothing to be upset about. I wish that more people, particularly on the Zoner side, would be okay with this.
Now mind you, nobody really wants a war. But wars happen anyway because conflict occurs and sometimes there's not much to do about it. And it's not anybody's fault out of roleplay. For the record, the Omicroners did not get together OORP and say, "What can we do in RP to create a war with Corsairs."
This is a completely false rumour. It never happened. Things simply evolved in roleplay as they should. No one's to blame. And there's no reason to fear anything either. Freelancer Discovery is about 100 factions struggling for world domination or just simply trying to survive. In any case, this is a video game centered around conflict. People should not shy away from it.
' Wrote:well, that reluctance to negotiate arises from the poor management of expectations:
corsair viewpoint (this is a generalisation, calm down dear):
you zoners are powerless, friendless and alone. we do what we want mmmkay?
zoner viewpoint (gen. again): respect mah authoritah!
corsairs can't/won't believe that the zoners have grown their horns
zoners are trying to prove that they won't be pushed around
For whatever it's worth, I consider your generalization to be more or less spot on. This isn't to say I'm trying to parade around screaming about authority OORP. But in roleplay, that is mostly spot on. And it's good to be clear about these things when being on the outside looking in.
' Wrote:well, that reluctance to negotiate arises from the poor management of expectations:
corsair viewpoint (this is a generalisation, calm down dear):
you zoners are powerless, friendless and alone. we do what we want mmmkay?
zoner viewpoint (gen. again): respect mah authoritah!
SCRA: lulz, we gots the idiots fighting each other, our work here is done.
corsairs can't/won't believe that the zoners have grown their horns
zoners are trying to prove that they won't be pushed around
That's exactly where the lines have been drawn inside the Council of Elders.
Corsairs wont be pushed into an equal agreement with what they view as a bunch of weaklings.
And that's exactly what Zoners want, since they dont consider themselves that anymore.
Essentially this war is a clash of egos inRP, involving many many people on both sides. But we've seen significant spillover into the OORP environment.
' Wrote:Essentially this war is a clash of egos inRP, involving many many people on both sides. But we've seen significant spillover into the OORP environment.
Which is why i find this war to be concerning, As of now.
Beacuse it has resulted in so much OoRP hate and rawr rawr i is powerful naos.
Without that, i find no concerns.
gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|
' Wrote:but, they need someone to fight against. fighting corsairs doesnt cut it. they tried and died. fp9 was blockaded, and you don't wanna step toe-to-toe with a group of people who fight all day everyday.
That's why we had such fun until we got shut down shooting Zoners. They have some ships that are designed to be defensive - not really offensive.
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
' Wrote:But we've seen significant spillover into the OORP environment.
Of course. But can't you say the same thing about almost every RP conflict on the server?
Players get attached to their favorite factions and it becomes an issue of competition. Which is fine. But the competition here usually reaches an incredibly unhealthy level. But that may be a discussion for a completely different thread.
What I would like very much is for players to coordinate inRP conflicts a bit more. But that's difficult too because those conversations often result in players being unable to compromise on that either. I've seen dozens of chatrooms where players walk in ready to coordinate an inRP conflict in a civilized manner but at the end of the day, the channel becomes filled with flames and spam.
Only one single solution that has ever worked, in my mind, as far as coordinating inRP conflicts are events.
Events are pretty basic because there is no real discussion about who gets what. Mostly it's folks meeting and executing a particular set of events. What happens is that actually BUIDLING the event itself becomes a lot of work. You start to function as a developer who has to coordinate dozens of players. OORP grudges become second nature. Maybe that's what Corsairs and Zoners need.
But to do that there would have to be a reestablishment of communication. And I am sad to say but most of the Zoner players are flinging dirt at each other half of the time.
' Wrote:For whatever it's worth, I consider your generalization to be more or less spot on. This isn't to say I'm trying to parade around screaming about authority OORP. But in roleplay, that is mostly spot on. And it's good to be clear about these things when being on the outside looking in.
whilst im not really on the outside, having five corsair ships, four of em benitez ships, the benitez aren't on the stage in this little drama. but we are more off in the wings rather than in the front row or the peanut gallery.
i see this conflict being more btn the TBH/Sails and the omicroners. benitez/TAZ/OSI/indies of both sides are interested but not involved parties per se. if this thing isn't sorted out peacefully, it'll spill over into our spheres of influence, and ofc we're all willing to back our favourite horses (if i'm allowed to mix my metaphors here).
we have a genuine chance to step back from the brink of a horrible catastrophe that will only strengthen our enemies whilst we become weaker.
for all the sabre rattling the corsairs have done (me too), the sairs do have more to lose here.
outcome 1. the sairs win, take over fp9.
this then moves the battlefront with the outcasts that much closer. sairs then have to defend a larger empire, and this opens up the back door to the hessians and mollies from the 'west' and opens up a new battlefront with the gmg via sig 17. Pyrrhic victory indeed.
zoners lose fp9, but this just confirms them as the 'little faction' according to canon.
outcome 2. the sairs lose, and then the circling vultures then press ever harder. a rise in aggression from the hessians, etc would more or less be permanent as the sair 'standing' would be seen to be reduced as they had lost to the 'little zoners'
zoners retain fp9, but they cannot press into gamma. they win increased standing, and are no longer seen as a little faction. however, they have opened pandoras box by stepping away from their neutral-defensive posture, and have gained a powerful enemy, right on their doorstep, and all traffic would have to come through the 'northern' omicrons/the sigmas, and it becomes open-season on zoner transports. other factions friendly to corsairs would then see zoners as legitimate targets, and the response to zoner 'foreign policy' that previously was an accepted irritant would see a disproportionate response. corsair enemies would not necessarily lend aid, as the benefit to them is negligable. pyrrhic victory again.
outcome 3. standstill/stalemate
all the negatives from 1 & 2.
sairs lose standing as they are being held off by the zoners, but as they maintain an increase presence in theta, the outcasts have less distance to travel for a raid, and blitzkrieg is the order of the day. hessians have a field day in the omegas, and mollies have a free rein in bretonia. the gmg can also pay 'visits' to theta.
zoners, whilst holding off the sairs, need a victory to increase their standing. their transports are targetted, and the loss of revenue hits them hard. they lose the shield of neutrality, and are suddenly seen by other factions that harbour a zoner base in their backyards as the threat they never saw before.
serious suggestion?
both sides of this conflict would benefit by standing down. an obvious solution is for the omicroners to accept the sair territorial claims over theta, and to lease the system on a peppercorn rent. like a nanobot per year.
the jumphole from eta to theta should be moved to kappa, but until then the zoners then forbid ALL non-zoner combat ships from theta, and back this up with firepower. (the outcasts will have to go the long way around. q_q). the freeport remains a true freeport, and the sairs respect the zoner leasing of theta, and like an absentee landlord, keep their noses out of zoner business.
' Wrote:we have a genuine chance to step back from the brink of a horrible catastrophe that will only strengthen our enemies whilst we become weaker.
As a matter of fact, I find this idea appealing from a developer's standpoint and possibly a neat set up to the thunderclap that will ring come 4.86.
Naturally I'm not in charge of such things as far as development goes. And neither am I saying that I purposefully want such a catastrophe to happen. My only focus in this matter is in regards to Zoners themselves.
I do not care weather Zoners go to war with Corsairs for eternity or not. I'm more concerned with the out of roleplay grudges running amok among Zoner players.
' Wrote:That's exactly where the lines have been drawn inside the Council of Elders.
agreed
' Wrote:Corsairs wont be pushed into an equal agreement with what they view as a bunch of weaklings.
agreed
' Wrote:And that's exactly what Zoners want, since they dont consider themselves that anymore.
NO
"And that's exactly what Zoners want" ... might pass, because I cannot tell you what Corsairs would perceive.
"since they dont consider themselves that anymore." ... cannot pass because this pure fiction now.
I'd like to see at least references where Zoners in vanilla, or ZTC/Omicroners displayed their chars as powerless.
Quote:Essentially this war is a clash of egos inRP, involving many many people on both sides. But we've seen significant spillover into the OORP environment.
it's more a conflict of vanilla definitions and rp changes made by players unilaterally
the key question regarding the corsair rp is still open: where are corsair weaknesses, and when are they being rped? or are the corsairs supposed to have no weaknesses?