I don't want to get into a debate here, as already stated. I just pointed out a similarity. If South African Whites did choose to be isolated, which many of them actually wanted. Then you would be fine with the comparison?
' Wrote:This is largely incorrect. The Hogosha are an independent entity which utilizes a mixture of social integration and political pressure through means of blackmail and grassroots force to maintain a certain air of autonomy from the law. They are in no way a "illegal hit squad".
Hitsquad may not be the right word, since they may not get all their orders from the emperor himself, but they are idiologically in favor of the emperor, and their actions, specifically against foreigners, are being tolerated by kusari lawfuls. So even if they are not officially his hitsquad, they are people who work in his favor and in that of his government, with illegal methods, who are being tolerated by him and his governement.
' Wrote:Furthermore, the fashion in which they operate demands recognition of the fact that Kusari is not a fascist state, but rather a constitutional monarchy with a broad hierarchy of elected officials to govern the various aspects of state. If this was not the case the Hogosha would be largely incapable of functioning over the course of centuries.
Can you name any examples of elected officials?
Japan had an emperor during WW2, and its generally considered to have been a fascist state, while also being a monarchy.
' Wrote:In short, the only agenda that the Hogosha further is that of the Hogosha. In this respect they differ considerably from the Farmers, a group with which the Hogosha are usually lumped.
Isnt their agenda something like "welfare of the kusari people"? I dont have the infocard in front of me, mabe I'm confusing it with someone. The fact that they are being tolerated by the lawfuls, that they fight the enemies of the emperors (Blood Dragon and GC), and that they fight for the economic interest of kusari and its governments, shows that they are in cahoots with the emperor. Which will of course be denied since they are known to use criminal methods.
' Wrote:Finally, the declaration of universal racism against outsiders is also flawed when delivered in absolute terms. The conflict between traditional views and isolationism and progressive views and a more open society is the foundation of the Kusari we have today. From the proliferation of Synthfoods to the pressure of the Bounty Hunters Guild to the conflict between Samura and Kishiro.
Well, when ever I went through kusari, I got called gaijin. Its considered a not politically correct word for foreigner, meaning alien both in the ethnic and citizen senese. At least thats what wikipedia tells me. 50% of times I hear it said in kusari (especialls form farmers and hogosha) it is joined with some other racial slur like "you are impure" or "you have tained my homeland". So yeah, Kusari is the most racist of all houses. Outcasts have their cardamine superiority complex, which isnt really about race, corsairs... are empirial fascist in many other ways, but havent them talking racist or nationalistic liek this yet.
About what the other guy said about south africa...
No I dont think its a good comparison. Isolationism wasnt really that much of a choice as far as I know, it was either sanctions that others upheld against them, or the will to be independant of other colonial powers, which made them lag behind, and they upheld things that the other colonial powers practiced before. I dotn know much about south african history though.
If there was any historical comparison to be made, I'd say first its japan in WW2. Even Nazi germany is a better comaprison than south africa. The junker situation kind of made me think of the way gipsies were treated in the 3rd reich. The junker lifestyle isnt exactly that of gipsies, but has some similar aspects, and I have seen some junkers RP as gitanos (long time ago on USA server). The way they are being marginalised by the goverment, taking the crimes of a few to demonize all, looking for every pretext possible ("information" bounty) to go after them with extreme measures, and to persue them with ferocity until your "homeland" is "purified" of them... really reminded me of that.
' Wrote:Isn't their agenda something like "welfare of the kusari people"? I don't have the infocard in front of me, maybe I'm confusing it with someone. The fact that they are being tolerated by the lawfuls, that they fight the enemies of the emperors (Blood Dragon and GC), and that they fight for the economic interest of Kusari and its governments, shows that they are in cahoots with the emperor. Which will of course be denied since they are known to use criminal methods.
No. Their agenda is to expand the every black market in Sirius and obliterate the ones they feel are too degrading, such as cardimine. If you ask them, they will say they are helping Kusari, but the truth is very far from that. They are selfish, power hungry, and willing to hurt Kusari if it benefits them. Essentially, they're the Junkers, but much more violent, dirty Junkers with a lot more influence who don't care about cover (no scrap mining). They are not the government's lapdogs, it's the other way around.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
' Wrote:If you ask them, they will say they are helping Kusari, but the truth is very far from that. They are selfish, power hungry, and willing to hurt Kusari if it benefits them.
Same goes for fascist regimes and dictators.
They are all crooks, all their nationalism and alleged patriotism is just a way to exert their own power.
' Wrote:They are not the government's lapdogs, it's the other way around.
Well, if its the other way around, and the emperor is their lap dog, is it really that much different for the kusari state?
' Wrote:I am not here to debate what Apartheid is or isn't. All I am saying is that there were similarities faced by Apartheid South Africa, that being isolation, and Kusari. Kusari is isolated. Apartheid South Africa was isolated. That is the similarity. I am not talking about anything else.
If what you are saying is that Kusari's isolationist nature is reminisce of an apartheid government because it's isolationist?
In that case I'm not sure I can get on board. Isolationist practices, cultural or political, are miles away from the kind of government inferred by labeling it as apartheid.
Would you perhaps care to illustrate some of the specific parallels between apartheid South Africa and Kusari?
' Wrote:Yeah I'm obviously quite prepared to do that as long as my reasons are given suitable consideration and not just dismissed as 'smuggling' for the sake of it. Again this obviously comes down to the 'opinion' of whoever i am dealing with however.
The only other option is to use a researcher ID with gives my RP more credence, but I would be unwilling to give up flying my corvo, it suits the role of my character perfectly
To the OP:
You were prepared to give reasons for your behaviour. That's good, but you should do that BEFORE you go ahead and do the thing that would normally be illegal.
It's the difference between "Asking for permission" and "Coming with excuses".
If you don't have said permission, and act against the Kusari laws (which you can look into yourself: Kusari Legal Codex), the person that catches you redhanded has little reason to be swayed by your reasons, and definitely isn't obligated to do so. By breaking the law without getting permission beforehand you gave yourself into the hands of people like the Hogosha you met. Don't be surprised when it then doesn't go all peachy for you.
' Wrote:If what you are saying is that Kusari's isolationist nature is reminisce of an apartheid government because it's isolationist?
In that case I'm not sure I can get on board. Isolationist practices, cultural or political, are miles away from the kind of government inferred by labeling it as apartheid.
Would you perhaps care to illustrate some of the specific parallels between apartheid South Africa and Kusari?
Not that I wanted to continue this. The isolationist practices of Kusari will bring about the kind of government of that of Apartheid. If you want to isolate yourself, you first have to get rid of everyone that you want to isolate yourself from. Correct? This is the exact problem the Apartheid government had. They had to forcefully remove people from certain locations. District 6 would spring to mind. Dusty, how many political deaths was the Apartheid government supposedly responsible for from the period of 1948 to 1990? The answer may surprise you. It is very similar to the figure of Junkers killed in the KPT attack on the liners. Please also bear in mind that this figure is directly from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission. 90 % of all politically motivated deaths during Apartheid were black on black. ANC vs IFP.
Now, here comes the similarity. Kusari hates Junkers, some Junkers are Kusarian. Therefore the Kusari government by getting rid of Junkers is forcefully having to remove them. With quite similar circumstances to the Apartheid government.
Dusty, also, the history of South Africa is quite different than what you have probably been told. Black people are not native to South Africa. Blacks and Whites never met until well after Whites had been there for almost one hundred years. The whole Western half of South Africa was settled and built up when there were no Blacks there. Thus blacks cannot be called "natives" of this area. Also, many of the other places of South Africa, including Natal, were purchased from black tribes. Research Piet Retief to get a better example of that scenario. Whites came by sea, Blacks came by trekking across sub-Saharan Africa from the Nigeria/Congo region of Africa. Therefore, neither are "native" to South Africa.
If you want to isolate yourself, you have two options. Try and negotiate or use military force. Both Kusari and the Apartheid government used the second option. Hence the similarity.
You know, I am not really sure what the purpose of this discussion is anymore. People are not all nice, governments are not all nice, and there is nothing wrong with a house in Discovery rping that it's not nice. If through this discussion people trying to change the RP of Kusari, that is not going to happen. Otherwise, I dont know why we are having this discussion.
' Wrote:You know, I am not really sure what the purpose of this discussion is anymore. People are not all nice, governments are not all nice, and there is nothing wrong with a house in Discovery rping that it's not nice. If through this discussion people trying to change the RP of Kusari, that is not going to happen. Otherwise, I dont know why we are having this discussion.
The guy asked.
No I'm not trying to change it, I'm just giving my opinion of it, because they guy asked.
Zelot, I did not even want to respond. I have no will to change your RP. I just respond when I'm questioned. Normal human reaction to respond when questioned. I draw my conclusions with your RP, you have your own. Nothing wrong with voicing them.
However, if Yamakazi is going to attack me, I will defend myself as I am entitled to. He threw the first shot here not me.