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[SnakThree]

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[Mímir]

Hey, long post. I agree there is a major problem with oorp going on in Dublin, but I have been there a lot observing and participating as a miner, trader and pirate and there are some super positive things to say about Dublin.

- It is very dynamic. Fraction and non-fraction alike fight daily battles, and the atmosphere of the system can change on an hourly basis, making for some interesting RP and entertainment.

- The emotional aspects. Feelings run high in Dublin, and I can't count the number of times I have been 'scoring' a load of ore from some indie (BMM iff) miner, investing a sizable portion of cash and crapping my pants at every sight of a pirate on my way to NY. Even though it spawns a lot of bitter oorp system chat, the general tension of Dublin can draw you in.

- In extension to the above, the nerve-wrecking Dublin-NY trade route was a lot of fun, especially if you have been playing this game in a lot of different ships - personally some of my best Disco moments was right in the beginning hauling cargo in my Rhino, biting my nails that I wouldnt get shot down by NPC's and lose all my credits invested in the cargo. Once you get a decent transport you don't have a lot of moments like that, in fact more or less only when you encounter other players - which you did often with the intense focus on 'The Dubling Gold Rush'.

- It has been a gateway for a lot of new players, and a means for them to be integrated with the rest of the Disco players. Afterall I met 'lolwut' miners who just needed directions and a light introduction into rp. In addition to this, I have done a bit of pirating in Dublin and on the trade line to NY myself, and trust me plenty of official faction tagged traders get cought up in it and behave silly. Dublin functioned as a community 'hub' much like New York does it in some sense: A place where people meet and greet, but opposed to NY system there is more of a 'wild west' setting in Dublin.

I think Dublin as it was had something to offer that no other system in Disco has. I remember entering Dublin in my indie Corsair bomber, hooking up with a Corsair fighter pilot i never met before, pirating together and then meeting up with a couple of hogosha transports (total strangers as well) and together we could really put the pressure on those miners, tractoring in the gold from the wrecks of those who refused to pay and then re-sell it to dodgy traders in the system and sharing the profits evenly amongst us. It is moments like these that make Disco a truly unique game, where strangers can meet and work together. You don't really get those opportunities (especially playing outside of a faction) in any other system.

Deactivating the mining in Dublin really is a shame, and there must be a way to rectify the situation. I vote for the Molly dirty bomb, leaving the mining intact but the system heavily radiated and having an ALG/Junker/Zoners presence (freeport for my zoner guard id char to dock:-)) far from the mining areas to clean up the mess. Boot out the 2 BS'es - IMO Essex doesnt really make that much sense in Dublin (even considering the history of Molly/BAF) as the Brets are getting their arses kicked by the Kusari (Kusari fighter patrols all the way down to Planet Leeds). I my eyes, defence of New London, the heart of Bretonia, would take massive priority over Dublin - if BS Derby is to fall, the Kusari can just walk on through to Planet New London before reaching any real opposition. If I was the admiral, I would be very much focused on protecting the heart of the Empire and also on re-assuring the New London polulation that they are safe by placing a second BS in New London system.

So it's easy:

BAF realize that Essex is better deployed in the defence against Kusari and pulls out --> Mollies seize the day and blow the miners and everybody else back to stoneage with a dirty bomb, heavily polluting the system and thus pissing off the Gaians in the process --> Junkers/Zoners/ALG move in with some sort of base (either junker or zoner) far away from the mining areas and BMM try to maintain their operations (working at their own risk with no BAF backup) out of a crippled Graves Station.

That's my solution, as you will maintain the mining (but making it more difficult for the miner) and relieve the BAF of having to work around the clock to protect lolwut miners. And if you think it is unlikely or even crazy that a Molly would blow up his/her own system, remember this is the people who invented the leprechaun...

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[Fletcher]

So it's easy:

BAF realize that Essex is better deployed in the defence against Kusari and pulls out --> Mollies seize the day and blow the miners and everybody else back to stoneage with a dirty bomb, heavily polluting the system and thus pissing off the Gaians in the process --> Junkers/Zoners/ALG move in with some sort of base (either junker or zoner) far away from the mining areas and BMM try to maintain their operations (working at their own risk with no BAF backup) out of a crippled Graves Station.

That's my solution, as you will maintain the mining (but making it more difficult for the miner) and relieve the BAF of having to work around the clock to protect lolwut miners. And if you think it is unlikely or even crazy that a Molly would blow up his/her own system, remember this is the people who invented the leprechaun...

I've proposed this, located here:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=93386

However, at first I supported it. Then Dab gave me a fair bit to think about here:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?s=...t&p=1336327

While in the short term it seems like a good idea, it disrupted the flow of Dublin too much and would dent lawful operations vastly, the making Dublin into a pure unlawful nest. Pirates would roam free and miners would eventually leave unless they invested heavily into protection or bribery.

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"Oh chuffing blimey, another day, another person being whiney!"
Fletcher's Feedback and Stories Thread

[Hastings]

BAF realize that Essex is better deployed in the defence against Kusari and pulls out --> Mollies seize the day and blow the miners and everybody else back to stoneage with a dirty bomb, heavily polluting the system and thus pissing off the Gaians in the process --> Junkers/Zoners/ALG move in with some sort of base (either junker or zoner) far away from the mining areas and BMM try to maintain their operations (working at their own risk with no BAF backup) out of a crippled Graves Station.

That's my solution, as you will maintain the mining (but making it more difficult for the miner) and relieve the BAF of having to work around the clock to protect lolwut miners. And if you think it is unlikely or even crazy that a Molly would blow up his/her own system, remember this is the people who invented the leprechaun...

As Dab has said countless times, no. There is no reason to do this to a vanilla system and RP-wise the BAF would be very unlikely to endanger both their primary source of state income as well as piss off a corporation with a Royal Charter.

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[Mímir]

As Dab has said countless times, no. There is no reason to do this to a vanilla system and RP-wise the BAF would be very unlikely to endanger both their primary source of state income as well as piss off a corporation with a Royal Charter.

I do see the point that BMM is a major contributor to the crown, but couldn't that be compensated through granting Bowex priveledges (give the id rights to transport gaian wildlife or perhaps readjust bretonian prices/add a few extra trade routes - there are already a variety of pretty decent bretonian routes), i.e. on a meta-level perform a rollback from Great Britain's economy under Thather to that of Queen Victoria emphasizing Bretonia as a trading empire more than anything?

In-rp the Queen could on a political level be pressed by the Kusarian progress and popular fear and unrest and make a bold but much needed decision to relocate resources (BAF| seem to employ a great deal of their resources on Dublin - I have no way of knowing this, but I could imagine that BAF| players spend more of their time on Dublin-related affairs than Kusari-related affairs) to defend Bretonia against an external enemy that is threatening the very existance of the empire. this would obviously be a blow to Bretonia's economy, so the Queen plans a new strategy based on Bowex, granting them priveledges.

Mind you, I imagine a Dublin still profitable, much in the same sense that tau-23 can be mined even though there are plenty of blood-thirsty outcasts roaming around. it would give fuel to bmm roleplay (i can understand there has been some worries about the future of their faction rp) as they would feel themselves distanced from the crown and having to re-define their identity and relation to other factions. bitter miners blaming the government...

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[Hastings]

I do see the point that BMM is a major contributor to the crown, but couldn't that be compensated through granting Bowex priveledges (give the id rights to transport gaian wildlife or perhaps readjust bretonian prices/add a few extra trade routes - there are already a variety of pretty decent bretonian routes), i.e. on a meta-level perform a rollback from Great Britain's economy under Thather to that of Queen Victoria emphasizing Bretonia as a trading empire more than anything?

In-rp the Queen could on a political level be pressed by the Kusarian progress and popular fear and unrest and make a bold but much needed decision to relocate resources to defend Bretonia against an external enemy that is threatening the very existance of the empire. this would obviously be a blow to Bretonia's economy, so the Queen plans a new strategy based on Bowex, granting them priveledges.

Mind you, I imagine a Dublin still profitable, much in the same sense that tau-23 can be mined even though there are plenty of blood-thirsty outcasts roaming around. it would give fuel to bmm roleplay (i can understand there has been some worries about the future of their faction rp) as they would feel themselves distanced from the crown and having to re-define their identity and relation to other factions. bitter miners blaming the government...

Thatcherite Britain was not in a state of symmetrical war under threat of invasion after the manner of Bretonia. The economy is already likely to crack because so much of the domestic product is going towards the military, so intentionally scaling back income during wartime would have dire effects. Furthermore, you underestimate just how influential and crucial BMM is - it rivals the British East India Company in that regard.

So again, no. Reducing operations in Dublin would have very detrimental effects with few benefits.

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[Mímir]

Thatcherite Britain was not in a state of symmetrical war under threat of invasion after the manner of Bretonia. The economy is already likely to crack because so much of the domestic product is going towards the military, so intentionally scaling back income during wartime would have dire effects. Furthermore, you underestimate just how influential and crucial BMM is - it rivals the British East India Company in that regard.

So again, no. Reducing operations in Dublin would have very detrimental effects with few benefits.

True, but Thatcherite Britain didn't have battleships in space either. I'm not saying Bretonia would choose to scale down as a long-term economic strategy, I'm saying they would be forced to re-configure their economic strategy and allocation of civilian and military resources to face an immediate threat to Bretonian existence. Especially in a situation where the economy is close to cracking on one hand and the war is going terribly wrong on the other, it seems wise to 'pick your winner' instead of having to try and sustain two different operations with the risk of losing both. Besides the relocation of Essex would not mean the end of BMM operations, they would just suffer a temporary setback in Dublin until the balance against Kusari is restored. I also think that in a dire situation, such as Bretonia is facing up to 4.86, the overall protection of the Empire's very existence takes priority over any corporate agenda, no matter how economically sensible that agenda is in the long run or how influential that corporation might be. Also, even though gold is vital for ship building, for production it cannot be needed in those insane quantities we see it mined on an average basis - it's not like the Bretonian ships are built of gold (and as we all know, the gold goes straight to Detroit anyways). The government would be forced to make a short term solution for an urgent problem, at the expense of a long term more viable economy, trying to compensate for this setback by granting Bowex extended rights. And who knows what will happen in the Kusari war - perhaps the relocation of Essex would push the Kusari back, allowing for Essex to be stationed back in Dublin once again?

It would just be so sad to see the mining go. Personally none of my characters really had a financial stake in it (had a miner for a few days but i got incredibly fed up with shooting at rocks, and i transported a bit of gold but got tired of that too), but I often go to Dublin to just watch thie drama unfold. No other system has that 'wild west' feel of desperation, although there truly is a need to put a lid on it somehow. Perhaps a simple reduction of ore prices will do the trick, but just turning the mod off seems like removing a brilliant and unique aspect of Disco.

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[DarthBindo]

but I often go to Dublin to just watch thie drama unfold. No other system has that 'wild west' feel of desperation, although there truly is a need to put a lid on it somehow. Perhaps a simple reduction of ore prices will do the trick, but just turning the mod off seems like removing a brilliant and unique aspect of Disco.

This man is my hero.

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gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|

[SnakThree]

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[Hastings]

True, but Thatcherite Britain didn't have battleships in space either.

The same principles apply.

I'm not saying Bretonia would choose to scale down as a long-term economic strategy, I'm saying they would be forced to re-configure their economic strategy and allocation of civilian and military resources to face an immediate threat to Bretonian existence. Especially in a situation where the economy is close to cracking on one hand and the war is going terribly wrong on the other, it seems wise to 'pick your winner' instead of having to try and sustain two different operations with the risk of losing both. Besides the relocation of Essex would not mean the end of BMM operations, they would just suffer a temporary setback in Dublin until the balance against Kusari is restored.

RP wise Bretonia is not "losing", they are at a stalemate with Kusari in Leeds.

The loss of the Essex means that the BAF no longer has a secure base to deploy from, it means the loss of a safe waypoint between Graves and the jump gate, and it means a significant loss of political leverage in the system. The Essex is quite crucial to Bretonia's presence in the system and there really is no point to removing it despite what the complaints of lazy pirates may otherwise infer.

I also think that in a dire situation, such as Bretonia is facing up to 4.86, the overall protection of the Empire's very existence takes priority over any corporate agenda, no matter how economically sensible that agenda is in the long run or how influential that corporation might be. Also, even though gold is vital for ship building, for production it cannot be needed in those insane quantities we see it mined on an average basis - it's not like the Bretonian ships are built of gold (and as we all know, the gold goes straight to Detroit anyways). The government would be forced to make a short term solution for an urgent problem, at the expense of a long term more viable economy, trying to compensate for this setback by granting Bowex extended rights. And who knows what will happen in the Kusari war - perhaps the relocation of Essex would push the Kusari back, allowing for Essex to be stationed back in Dublin once again?

We'll discuss 4.86 when it happens, not before. Furthermore, security is one thing but if you cannot sustain that level of security financially then you've already lost - BMM is one of the cles de voute in Bretonia's economy and impairing their ability to operate is idiotic from an administrative standpoint.

You're confusing player output with RP - by that logic the BAF would consist of less than 50 people.

And once again, your solution is quite ill-contemplated. Bretonia holds a near-monopoly on gold in Sirius, and it provides a steady stream of income to support the war effort; there is no impetus to fuel a major economic shift when the current methods are working quite well for the short term.

I doubt one battleship would be able to turn the tide since in-RP the BAF warship arsenal comprises of several hundred vessels.

It would just be so sad to see the mining go. Personally none of my characters really had a financial stake in it (had a miner for a few days but i got incredibly fed up with shooting at rocks, and i transported a bit of gold but got tired of that too), but I often go to Dublin to just watch thie drama unfold. No other system has that 'wild west' feel of desperation, although there truly is a need to put a lid on it somehow. Perhaps a simple reduction of ore prices will do the trick, but just turning the mod off seems like removing a brilliant and unique aspect of Disco.

I'm not arguing to have mining go, I'm arguing against this fixation with using the Essex as a scapegoat for more deep-seated problems.

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