' Wrote:The ship deletion will be fun. I approve, the downside of it will be that the sever wont be as populated as it is now. Much easier solution is if your transport class ship dies, it stays grounded per hour with FL hook command not allowing you to undock( you don´t have engine for example) 1 hour repair time will be enough to change attitude without loosing members. It could be the same for fighters 5 min /bombers 10 min /Gbs 20 min /cruisers 30 min / Battleships 40 min for example.
' Wrote:Isn't fair to stagger depending on ship class. If you die, you loose the ship for a set amount of time, no matter the class. I wouldn't call it repair time; seeing as you were destroyed.
Considering I just managed to get EVERY SINGLE ORDER SHIP BESIDES ANUBIS...i still say no to shiploss on death and others have alot of ships they have worked,hard on...
We don't have the money, nor the time, to powertrade our stuff back.
And its not a cakewalk, trading at the current time.
No. Just forget it. Please.
Just forget shiploss on death. It won't make it more intresting-it will kill disco.
I was pirated yesterday. I was in a 1k transport, with 1k units of neon and 400k in liquid assets. The pirate asked for 1 million credits. I told them I honestly didn't even have half of it. So they asked for all my cargo. I pointed out that I wouldn't even be able to afford another run, and would put me out of business. He didn't care.
I had no choice but to use deception and then make a break for it. If I had been destroyed, I would have been no worse off than complying.
In RP, my character was faced with being financially ruined, having to make tiny in-system runs until enough capital could be raised to actually make a real profitable run.
Sorry, that's just silly. And if it became common-place, commerce would grind to a halt. It almost did for my character.
For myself I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else.
-Sir Winston Churchill
' Wrote:I'd never suggest it if I didn't feel that people need a wake up call to teach them how to properly role play. Ship deletion on death would be a wake up call for all players; not just traders.
' Wrote:This would be awesome and have my support.
' Wrote:I was pirated yesterday. I was in a 1k transport, with 1k units of neon and 400k in liquid assets. The pirate asked for 1 million credits. I told them I honestly didn't even have half of it. So they asked for all my cargo. I pointed out that I wouldn't even be able to afford another run, and would put me out of business. He didn't care.
I had no choice but to use deception and then make a break for it. If I had been destroyed, I would have been no worse off than complying.
In RP, my character was faced with being financially ruined, having to make tiny in-system runs until enough capital could be raised to actually make a real profitable run.
Sorry, that's just silly. And if it became common-place, commerce would grind to a halt. It almost did for my character.
Seems like good RP on both sides to me.
User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)
' Wrote:Considering I just managed to get EVERY SINGLE ORDER SHIP BESIDES ANUBIS...i still say no to shiploss on death and others have alot of ships they have worked,hard on...
We don't have the money, nor the time, to powertrade our stuff back.
And its not a cakewalk, trading at the current time.
No. Just forget it. Please.
Just forget shiploss on death. It won't make it more intresting-it will kill disco.
' Wrote:And finally: some pirates make unreasonable demands. I think that is wrong and agree with you on that point; maybe some rules about pirate demands in relation to cargo size need to be put in (more rules are always dangerous however). A pirate demanding 10 million from a rhino is pushing it and in my book breaking 1.1
I'm not sure how I missed this part the first time around, but yes, there definitely should be some kind of limit.
' Wrote:You totally missed the point of my statement; I was speaking to the fact that justifying running from a pirate because its more cost effective if you die is extremely OORP and should be mitigated.
I agree, and a pirate putting a player into a position where dying is more cost effective than living is pretty severely lame. If you're intentionally putting someone into the position where it's better for them to die than RP with you, then it's pretty obvious that you're just looking to kill them.
' Wrote:Instead of pretending that the pirates respects 0.0 (which is total bs, meaning is a lame argument that has absolutely no meaning) by asking less, why don't you do that and pay him?
I'll definitely pay him if his demand is reasonable. Two mil? Sure, that's fine. As much as ten, when I'm on an ore run? Yeah, that's better than losing the load.
I don't see any reason to be OORPly respectful of someone who is not OORPly respectful of me.
Quote:Mhmm....again..considered other possibilities...like...paying? For the sake of argument, let's say the pirate it's in it just for the blue message. Means you're in just for the credits...I hardly see how that's different.
Me just being in it for the credits doesn't make him miserable. Him being in it just for the blue message does make me miserable. And that's his entire goal.
Quote:Besides the fact that I always found plenty of escorts....again, for the sake of argument, let's say there are none. How exactly is it the pirate's fault, and why should he go easy on you because you couldn't find an escort?
He shouldn't "go easy" on me because I don't have an escort. Being OORPly fair shouldn't be considered "going easy," it should just be par for the course.
Quote:Pirates CAN do whatever they want, since they have the gun. Traders have options, but they're too stupid/lazy/greedy to look for them.
Yes, I'm too stupid/lazy/greedy to hire an escort from Tau 23 when there's only 60 people on the server.
The Kusari Explorer is a gunboat, not a Ptrans or Ptrain.
Quote:I am sorry you met OORP jerks... I am not one of them. I don't know who you are ingame, I treat all traders the same, I even tell my Renegades that if I catch em in one of their trader chars, expect no different.
I might be inclined to believe you if I didn't have a screenshot of you demanding 20mil from me that says otherwise.
Quote:What the?! WUT?
Something wrong with those numbers?
Quote:Pirates could complain "why don't traders always pay?:(" But normally they don't, because they understand that that's how the trader is. Traders should also try to understand the question "why do pirates always ask so much:(" its simply because THAT IS WHAT A PIRATE DOES.
Pirates being played by jerk players who just want a collection of blue messages or to make another player miserable (or both) ask "so much." Pirates who are being played by players who respect the other person OORPly don't ask too much. Like this guy:
' Wrote:On my pirate I ran into a trader today, the guy happened to be a higher level (80+) I asked a reasonable price. (Around 2 - 4 million, the guy was carrying ore a few lanes down from a salepoint.) He tried to barter me down, while I normally disagree with this just for the fact of looking at his level, he made good RP about it so I was much more inclined to agree with his bargaining than if he had just said "No, I can't pay" or something stupid like that. Those are the kind of interactions that I as a pirate am looking for.
And those are the kind of interactions that I as a trader am looking for.
You talk about RP but all it matters to you is the amount of credits/cargo you are left with at end of the encounter.
I'm curious as to how you arrived at that conclusion. The cargo/credits are a secondary goal, but they're still at least somewhat important. It's all about value. What's the going rate for roleplay in credits per minute? Well, that depends on the quality of the roleplay, but rare would be the roleplay that's worth losing all the credits from a run in a one-minute pirate encounter.
If a pirate player provides me with an enjoyable roleplay experience for a bit, I'm certainly happy to share the spoils of a trade run with him. I will not, however, be happy handing over the last hour or so of my time (in the case of an ore run) for a one-minute RP session.
That's just how it works.
' Wrote:Nope, pirates just want to ruin peoples days.
Many notorious ones themselves have said (oorply) they dont do it to make money, they specifically do it to mess with people.
That's Disc0very for you.
It's good to see honesty for once.
' Wrote:Well, i play both sides traders and pirates, like many other players here. I met so many Traders with my different pirate chara`s. Some of them don`t want to pay 1 mil credits demand for a cargo`s worth of 8 million and more (and lv80+) and try to run to a base. What should i say about that? I sit in my pirate ship and think: " What a douchebag, i kill you now". So don`t talk about the lost respect of pirate players or something like that. I mean i don`t like the "drop all your niob ore" thing, But when i see that the trader is kiddin me with a ridicliuos amount of money for his cargo/shipfe, i call that disrespect from the trader ( i met a lot of those traders ) and then i blew him up. Or when he try to thrust away. After i killed the trader, i saw a LOT of green msg like "Why u kill me?", "i report you!" or much better from a player who was not involved: "Why you killed my friend? I come and kill you with my Capship".
I'm not saying there aren't disrespectful, rude, and lulwut traders. Sure there are. That doesn't mean that pirates should go out of their way to be OORPly disrespectful to all traders.
Quote:And it depends on the character of the pirate. What did you expect from a Xenos or the Farmers Alliance for example? The Xenos wants to blew up the cargo of traders to destroy the LIberty Economy so far as i know. The Farmers Alliance don`t want Gaijin`s in Kusari and they don`t want that they come back. So drop all your cargo or die. When "King" Rorry or other pirates wants to play a "drop all your cargo" pirate, it`s their decision. Not yours. (And Rorry don`t want always all of the traders cargo).
Simple answer. You had Niob ore on board and lost the cargo? Tough luck. Hire a scout/escort next time.
Sure, there are some factions where it makes sense to demand all cargo. Xenos, Farmer's Alliance against foreign influence. Lane Hackers against Ageira. Gaians against anyone carrying whatever it is they don't like.
Making an indie pirate with a "drop all your cargo" roleplay, especially when you're flying something that can't even carry any cargo, is just looking for kills. Where's the limit? What if I decided to play a Junker pirate who demands either the scrap value of the vessel you're flying in cash or he'll scrap the vessel for you? That works out to more than 50mil for the 5k vessels. Would you defend my "right" to roleplay how I want then?
Also, see above for the escort thing.
' Wrote:So when you get stopped twice by two different pirates and you loose 100% of the profit from that run you won't whine like you are now? I find that highly unlikely.
I'll be annoyed, but a whole lot less annoyed than I would be if I'd had to give it all to one person.
' Wrote:After reading this thread I'd rather enjoy it if all ships were deleted on death
Good job hijacking the thread. That would certainly make for an interesting dynamic on the server, and would probably help to upset the completely backwards trader/pirate ratio, because people would have to spend a lot more time trading to get cash for ships. I'd be willing to try that, but I'd want it to be on a "clean slate" sort of server--if I'm going to start losing ships on death, I want to lose a Rhino, not a 5k.
Quote:See exactly how quickly all the non role playing traders like Hielor here either leave the server or learn to role play a trader properly.
Hey, thanks for the insult! I love you too, man. But, more seriously, wanting to make money isn't role playing a trader properly? What is, then? Pirates are allowed to be greedy, but traders aren't?
I've had several enjoyable roleplay encounters with pirates where it was evident that there was mutual OORP respect. I've also had several pirate encounters with lulwuts who were just incompetant, but that's to be expected. I've also had a handful of encounters with players who were just looking to grief people. It's that last set that I'm complaining about.
Edit: I spend way too much time thinking about this game:(
' Wrote:I was pirated yesterday. I was in a 1k transport, with 1k units of neon and 400k in liquid assets. The pirate asked for 1 million credits. I told them I honestly didn't even have half of it. So they asked for all my cargo. I pointed out that I wouldn't even be able to afford another run, and would put me out of business. He didn't care.
I had no choice but to use deception and then make a break for it. If I had been destroyed, I would have been no worse off than complying.
In RP, my character was faced with being financially ruined, having to make tiny in-system runs until enough capital could be raised to actually make a real profitable run.
Sorry, that's just silly. And if it became common-place, commerce would grind to a halt. It almost did for my character.
traders are players too sure some lie like that but for the most part the above reasons why i stoped tradeing alltogeather
the sharks need to stop eating themselves into extinction
and people need to be more curtious and not greif the traders because the pirate may get ganked by 12344567869875 lawfuls if they dont
* jimmy Patterson deposits 2 cents and adds something about rule 0,0
' Wrote:Hey, thanks for the insult! I love you too, man. But, more seriously, wanting to make money isn't role playing a trader properly? What is, then? Pirates are allowed to be greedy, but traders aren't?
The entirity of your post previous to this, was you complaining about how pirates shouldnt be greedy.
User was banned for: Griefing others
Time left: (Permanent)
I neglected to mention that I was an independent trader, and he was a lane hacker. Is it good RP for a lane hacker to want 1000 units of neon from a random unaffiliated flying monkey? I think it's absurd.
For myself I am an optimist - it does not seem to be much use being anything else.
-Sir Winston Churchill
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