To those involved in the Freeport 1 Witch Hunt

[Fletcher]

Uh... why is this still going on?

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"Oh chuffing blimey, another day, another person being whiney!"
Fletcher's Feedback and Stories Thread

[n00bl3t]

They will only say Y/N to new administrator. If N - new one must be chosen by zoners again. That's all. It was said in on of Comm threads.

Frankly, regardless of what happens, if Bretonia seriously tries to enact that without Zoner community support they will not have a leg to stand upon.

That interpretation of the contract is utter crap. Just like the Blood Diamonds ordering being an illegal act.

Edit: In short, if Blood Diamonds are not listed as contraband, ordering them cannot be considered an illegal act.

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Anything I say is not intended as offensive, and to try and deliberately misinterpret it as such would be an attempt at trolling via misrepresentation.

It's not a conspiracy, it's localised bias. They're not intelligent enough to form a conspiracy.

[Petitioner]

I would just like to point out that the post above this one's tl;dr section is just as long as the normal section.

It's a habit.

Also,
[color=#FFFF66]O[color=#F0FC6B]MG DAB REPLIED TO MY POST. I THINK I'M A REAL COMMUNITY MEMBER NOW!



(yay colors.)

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[fencore]

Meh, this whole back and forth really disappoints me.

For the most part, it's not the nature of the inRP responses that we have to worry about, it's the degree. I don't blame Bretonia for having issues because Rheinland poked their noses in. I don't blame Rheinland for querying in the Blood Diamond order, given that they're called blood diamonds because they're going to be funding the Hessian revolution effort. Those guys getting sticky about the situation seems justifiable given certain circumstances.

I know with OSI stuff we talked it over and over and over, given the rocky history with Dakun back during the ORI days. Eventually we kinda decided to keep our noses out of it until a time when his actions could expand from him being in **** to getting all of Zoners in the doghouse. Fortunately, both Rheinland and Bretonia kept their wits and laid the blame on the guilty party, which was our plucky FP1 Administrator.

Yeah, Dakun's got a history, but we gave him a chance to run his show. I'm still dubious as to the methods by which ownership was obtained, but we let it slide. Really, if anything, the only witch hunt that could have taken place was if the Zoner official factions had raised more of a stink about Freeport ownership, and that discussion had been ongoing since the incident between Liberty and FP2 a few weeks back.

Nah, Dakun did not handle the situation as it should have been given his claim to being a Zoner. I'm all about being liberal with roleplay and doing your own thing, especially with Zoners, but I don't think Dakun was staying within the range of what could be considered acceptable Zoner roleplay by any of the factions, but that's should've been our ground to go extreme with the responses, not you guys'.

We've got a man who wasn't paying attention to the consequences of what he was ordering, and to his credit did rescind that part of the order, but his public response to Rheinland was hostility and barring the inquisitor from station docking. Strike One. Bretonia, I will say was overzealous in their querying into the Freeport prior to the point at which the near-station in-game RP took place. Dakun did try to instigate a fight in Bretonia space surrounding the Freeport, though, regardless of the context. That's Strike Two. Past that, reading the back and forth in the Comms, a blatant ignorance of any potential diplomatic mistake was ignored in favor of revoking more docking permissions. Strike Three. Dane did take over PR, and that was a good move, and things are beginning to calm down there now, which is also swell, but we can't absolve Dakun of mistakes he clearly did make. He wasn't set up, gents, he reacted to an open situation in a manner which provoked such RP responses, and then didn't handle the consequences well.

On Rheinland's end, while they probably could've been a little kinder about the inquiry into the order of a Zoner station nestles in a Bretonian protectorate, I don't see a whole lot of issue when them looking into a large purchase of Blood Diamonds. To be fair, I'm still more concerned about Rheinland's liberal use of screenshots taken from Freelance players and using them to incriminate shippers moving through Rheinland space, which I find distasteful. But since we're not overly concerned about that, I don't see why there's such a stink about the Krauts looking into an open transmission about Blood Diamonds. At least they're doing the legwork themselves.

Bretonia, Dab, I admire your dedication to protecting O-3 after we all had such a hassle to give you clear rights to it before, but up until Dakun actively attempted to instigate a brawl on the Freeport, your primary concern should've been Rheinland poking into your space. Technically, yeah, I suppose you could construe Blood Diamonds as contraband given that they're meant to support Hessian activities and the Hessians are an unlawful group, but you know, I think Rheinland had that covered. The two of you should've been communicating more instead of threatening Dakun from both sides and declaring a near-annexation of the space and forcing Bretonian control over administrator selection. Cite Beth all you want, we almost had a real problem there. Once Dakun showed clear intent to cause a disturbance in Bretonian space, I can be all for the crack-down, but before then it seemed unnecessarily totalitarian, especially since he did quickly remove the BDs from the order, even after which he was continually hounded by your folks.

Everyone else, Jesus Christ, keep your noses out of business that isn't yours. It's amazing how nobody's a Zoner until everyone's a Zoner.

So, say it with me, "We all screwed up, now let's work to make it better." There there, now doesn't that feel better? Yeah, our plucky FP1 admin screwed the pooch, and while the ideas behind the RP responses were somewhat justified, not all of it was fantastic, and I'm quite sure all sides are to bear blame here. Finger-point all you want, you're going to find something that was done wrong, because everyone did something wrong here. What matters is whether or not these people are able to stand up and admit their fallacy. We learn more from our failures than our successes, my father told me. I still believe that to be true, although I rarely see it in practice here.

[Vogel]

I'll say nothing of the sort.

[Hielor]

2.) Dakun's having ordered Blood Diamonds was considered by us to be an illegal act, regardless of the location. If someone in Bering were to order Blood Diamonds, we'd still consider it an illegal act. We would not be able to take action because he is outside of our realm of control, we cannot get to him. However, he would be considered a criminal inside Bretonia or its protectorates. Buying Blood Diamonds is supporting the Red Hessians, and that is aiding an enemy of Bretonia. That means we consider you an outlaw. This (and several other reasons highlighted in previous posts) is why there is an arrest warrant issued for Dakun's character.

Please get Blood Diamonds marked as contraband in Bretonia in the laws, for the benefit of people who don't read every thread on the forums and can't possibly know that they're considered illegal despite not being called illegal anywhere.

Unless, of course, you're *trying* to give your officers the ability to stick it to new people. That's totally okay too, just be honest about it.

[SnakThree]

Dab, you claim to go by real life laws of UK. Yet you say you would hold purchase of Blood Diamonds in Bering as illegal act.

I can see how UK could consider some acts in Lithuania illegal by their own laws. Yeah. I can't see it.

There is so much inconsistency in Bretonia's laws and everyone see it, while you (Bretonia) are doing nothing to become better at it. You have to state laws to be able to arrest someone by accusing of breaking them. As far as I know, I could claim I bought Blood Diamonds from some trader, not Hessians, thus not fueling their economy and so I couldn't be claimed to be guilty of it. That is of course if involved players would go for dynamic RP and not planned (he is guilty, let's make it quick without leaving ANX chance of proving otherwise)

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[Agmen of Eladesor]

2.) Dakun's having ordered Blood Diamonds was considered by us to be an illegal act, regardless of the location. If someone in Bering were to order Blood Diamonds, we'd still consider it an illegal act. We would not be able to take action because he is outside of our realm of control, we cannot get to him. However, he would be considered a criminal inside Bretonia or its protectorates. Buying Blood Diamonds is supporting the Red Hessians, and that is aiding an enemy of Bretonia. That means we consider you an outlaw. This (and several other reasons highlighted in previous posts) is why there is an arrest warrant issued for Dakun's character.

Actually, this tenuous comment by Dab is the basis of the lawsuit and trial that's being RP'd out. From an actual, real world legal perspective (which is something I have way too much experience and knowledge of, since my masters degree is in Criminology and I still have all of my law books in the basement) - these charges and warrants should be thrown out of court because the chain is flawed.

And if it doesn't happen that way, heck, we're still having fun with forum RP anyway.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Dab]

Bretonia, Dab, I admire your dedication to protecting O-3 after we all had such a hassle to give you clear rights to it before, but up until Dakun actively attempted to instigate a brawl on the Freeport, your primary concern should've been Rheinland poking into your space. Technically, yeah, I suppose you could construe Blood Diamonds as contraband given that they're meant to support Hessian activities and the Hessians are an unlawful group, but you know, I think Rheinland had that covered. The two of you should've been communicating more instead of threatening Dakun from both sides and declaring a near-annexation of the space and forcing Bretonian control over administrator selection. Cite Beth all you want, we almost had a real problem there. Once Dakun showed clear intent to cause a disturbance in Bretonian space, I can be all for the crack-down, but before then it seemed unnecessarily totalitarian, especially since he did quickly remove the BDs from the order, even after which he was continually hounded by your folks.

It amazes me how people can completely ignore prior posts in this thread.

For the last time;
My character was in Omega-3 that day to kick BDM out. You can ask the BDM I kicked out and he'll confirm that. You can ask the BDM Director and he'll confirm that. Said Director stepped down from his position after that fiasco. I then had to deal with a Privateer who was misbehaving. I did not go there to deal with Dakun, since he wasn't even online at the time I logged in or arrived. He logged in in the midst of me dealing with the BDM/Privateer issue. I didn't even get an opportunity to directly speak to Dakun. So trying to say I went there to kill Dakun is absurd. I went there to deal with the BDM, and there are two BDM, a Privateer, two Freelancers, and half a dozen BAF who can testify to that fact. It was during my trying to deal with the Privateer that Dakun went and did the stupid things in-game that he did.

your primary concern should've been Rheinland poking into your space.

As I stated above; That was the primary concern. It got dealt with. I also went and kicked the RM indy cruiser and battleship out of Omega-3 that had entered it in violation of the Omega treaty. I then also included my warning to Rheinland in my communication channel thread.

All of this conveniently ignored by people trying to say I'm out to get Dakun.

but you know, I think Rheinland had that covered.

The fact that Dakun was breaking our laws wasn't the only factor in why we acted on this. It also served as a clear warning to Rheinland, to stay out of Omega-3 and its business. Rheinland can absolutely declare Dakun a criminal for doing that. But bringing ships into Omega-3 was unacceptable, and this was made very clear to them.

The two of you should've been communicating more instead of threatening Dakun from both sides

If you'd actually read my communications to Dane Summers, you'd notice that I have forbidden Rheinland from interfering in the matter. Rheinland and Bretonia are not ganging up on Dakun. Bretonia is taking legal action on Dakun while at the same time, telling Rheinland to get their nose our of our business, and keep it out. A post made directly to the BDM Director should've made this abundantly clear to those who actually read what was going on.

declaring a near-annexation of the space

We did nothing of the sort, and claiming we did is ludicrous. There is nothing to back up this claim.

forcing Bretonian control over administrator selection.

This is the part that is true. But as said above, it is mostly an in-RP measure, and not likely to be used often, if ever.

Cite Beth all you want

To the contrary, it is the Zoners who keep trying to quote the Bethlehem treaty. After having gone a year trying to say it is no longer valid. So be it, that means they can't use its terms legally. The Freeport 1 treaty, which is completely valid, is the only treaty that Bretonia has been using. Again, if you had read the iRP posts on this issue, you'd know this.

Once Dakun showed clear intent to cause a disturbance in Bretonian space, I can be all for the crack-down, but before then it seemed unnecessarily totalitarian

It was not until this happened, my character a direct witness to it, that we took any action against Dakun. Check the RP sections. You'll note Bretonia made no steps against Dakun until the in-game stuff happened. Until that point, our concern was Rheinland entering Omega-3 or trying to assert their authority there. Again, if you had read the RP posts related to this issue, you'd know this.

especially since he did quickly remove the BDs from the order, even after which he was continually hounded by your folks.

Blood Diamonds alone wasn't worth bothering with a political issue with the Zoners. It was when the other actions he took was added onto it that we finally did step in. Please read the RP thread I made on behalf of Bretonia that shows a full list of charges against him. While everyone here may be trying to make a big stink about Blood Diamonds and whether or not they are illegal (which they are, not because they are contraband, but because they are produced solely by the Red Hessians, so having them means you are supporting an enemy of Bretonia, directly or indirectly, depending if you bought them yourself), Blood Diamonds was not the reason an arrest warrant was issued for his character.

People looking for drama just find it convenient to ignore everything that doesn't help their ability to post Q_Q.

Again, if you had read the RP posts related to this issue, you'd know this.

Please get Blood Diamonds marked as contraband in Bretonia in the laws, for the benefit of people who don't read every thread on the forums and can't possibly know that they're considered illegal despite not being called illegal anywhere.

Unless, of course, you're *trying* to give your officers the ability to stick it to new people. That's totally okay too, just be honest about it.

There was a charter revision in the works by the Bretonian government before all this started, and it'll be updated soon (a copy of the current charter as it is will be put in a side topic, for the court case and whatnot, since the charges were filed before the new charter. Blood Diamonds are specifically listed as contraband on the new charter. But despite that, the "aiding enemies of Bretonia" clause does apply here, as Red Hessians are the sole producers of that commodity. Thus, to obtain them, you must be aiding them directly, by purchasing them, or indirectly, by purchasing them off a trader who bought them from the Hessians.

Dab, you claim to go by real life laws of UK. Yet you say you would hold purchase of Blood Diamonds in Bering as illegal act.

I can see how UK could consider some acts in Lithuania illegal by their own laws. Yeah. I can't see it.

Terrorists bombing a nation are generally considered terrorists by many other nations, even if those others are not being targeted. People supplying and aiding said terrorists are also considered criminals by many other nations. It's not abnormal at all. While we cannot say they were smuggling within our sovereignty, we can say they were aiding an enemy of Bretonia.

It's no different than if a trader took supplies to Corsair bases in Omega-5 and were seen doing so. They may not be in Bretonia sovereignty, they may not be carrying contraband, but they are aiding a direct enemy of Bretonia, and people caught doing that are not going to be allowed in Bretonia's territory.

As far as I know, I could claim I bought Blood Diamonds from some trader, not Hessians, thus not fueling their economy and so I couldn't be claimed to be guilty of it.

As I've already stated in this thread, and in the RP thread;
Even if you didn't buy the Blood Diamonds directly from the Red Hessians, you are still indirectly aiding the Red Hessians. Smugglers don't smuggle goods with no profit to them. People are buying Blood Diamonds. That money inevitably makes its way to the Red Hessians, as that smuggler will continue to buy their Blood Diamonds, because they are in demand. Take away the demand, and you cut off some of the Hessian's income.

I'll also show you a part of the Blood Diamond infocard that further solidifies my point;

Ideological allies and sympathizers of the Red Hessians have been quick to import Blood Diamonds as a show of support for the Hessians' cause

By owning a Blood Diamond, Bretonia considers you a supporter, or at least a sympathizer, to the Hessian cause. This is true of -all- the houses in Sirius.

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[SnakThree]

Not Kusari as far as law states. Unless it was edited without any notice again.

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