SRP discussion!

[Vogel]

Again with the poor examples.

So we'll ignore the defectors, the military intelligence operations, the thieves, the crafty Junkers, the third-party sponsored vigilantes, the Nomad-infested ships, the R&D projects, the technology-sharing between factions.

The never-ending search for balance ends in excess. Your ideal server world is thereby a homogeneous swarm of Codename/Flashpoint packing Eagles, which is exactly what would happen once everybody finally gets bored with the limited number of roles available.

Either that or they leave.

[Marrone]

If I were running this show, I'd make it so that the admins would talk about the stories and judge on them infront of the whole community. The problem with that, is that unfortunately not a lot of people might not quite trust the judgement of the administrative team, not because they don't deserve it but because we're all equal as human beings and we should all get the same respect because of that. However, it brings you down to the idea that is often ignored; administrators probably deserve to determine whether or not your ship gets to pass.

From a once-administrator from a WoW RP server who used to do applications for Prestige Classes, it's important to offer constructive criticism so instead of saying "no, goodbye" it's "no, try again". But you see, this only really works in a community which understands the concept of simple-complex, which goes along the theory of "even if it seems like it's simple, it's actually very complex". This technique is used primarily by very experienced RolePlayers who've been around quite a bit, and basically it's like taking a very simple idea or stereotypical character concept and developing it beyond it's limits without breaking the simple or stereotypical character concept. But I digress, this type of level is only where we would prefer the community to be at.

If the majority of the community had the idea of using other peoples techs sparingly, understanding that using other faction tech is a privlidge, and saw it as something that was rare, bizarre, and in some cases exotic, then we wouldn't be talking right now. Problem is with the people, not the tech; the best thing to do is not to disagree with the proposal but rather try to understand it better. I don't know very much about the specific subject at hand, but I can guarantee you that the administrators didn't just do this for shoots and giggles, they did it because they felt it was the most appropriate action for the community, and that's something I can respect regardless of my opinion.

If you're feeling fundimentalist, we should try to create larger awareness to this subject and promote the correct form of behavior, not just OOCly but also ICly. Talking about the problem is not against the rules, so you're doing really well. Keep discussing, but remember, this isn't about who can have bigger text or give a wittier response, it's about having an intelligent discussion, which so far looks to be going mildly smooth.

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[Zelot]

Again with the poor examples.

So we'll ignore the defectors, the military intelligence operations, the thieves, the crafty Junkers, the third-party sponsored vigilantes, the Nomad-infested ships, the R&D projects, the technology-sharing between factions.

The never-ending search for balance ends in excess. Your ideal server world is thereby a homogeneous swarm of Codename/Flashpoint packing Eagles, which is exactly what would happen once everybody finally gets bored with the limited number of roles available.

Either that or they leave.

I find fault with your assessment. Eagles with Flashpoints? Pah, you act as if there are no faction ships or weapons. Most factions nowdays have thier own shiplines and guns. Why is it such an imposition for people to use those?

Now who is using poor examples?

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[Vogel]

which is exactly what would happen once everybody finally gets bored with the limited number of roles available.

I'm sure everybody wants to be a stereotypical military officer, or pirate, or zoner forever.

Now who is using poor examples?

I counter "magician dwarf, half elv half samurai, fighting against corruption with a sword" with legitimate, realistic stories that already exist thanks to previous Special Roleplay Requests and this is how you respond?

[casero]

Again with the poor examples.

So we'll ignore the defectors, the military intelligence operations, the thieves, the crafty Junkers, the third-party sponsored vigilantes, the Nomad-infested ships, the R&D projects, the technology-sharing between factions.

The never-ending search for balance ends in excess. Your ideal server world is thereby a homogeneous swarm of Codename/Flashpoint packing Eagles, which is exactly what would happen once everybody finally gets bored with the limited number of roles available.

Either that or they leave.

No, but my ideal server is one where characters don't need technology to represent them.

A character is what it is, not because of the ship it flies, or the guns it fires. Don't limit your character's story to a ship and a bunch of guns.

The limited numbers of roles available does not change with SRPs, the ships they fly and the guns they use do. Perhaps you have a wrong idea of what a SRP is.

[casero]

I'm sure everybody wants to be a stereotypical military officer, or pirate, or zoner forever.
I counter "magician dwarf, half elv half samurai, fighting against corruption with a sword" with legitimate, realistic stories that already exist thanks to previous Special Roleplay Requests and this is how you respond?

Unless the SRPs allow to add new IDs to the game, the number of roles don't change.

EDITED: Also, by the way you expressed that, it sounds more like you want to have the same privileges that those previous SRP owners, just because they have them. Which is what Zelot was pointing out, jealousies. Of course, as it's -my- analysis of the way you said it, it means nothing really.

[Jeremy Hunter]

But not everyone reads stoties on the forums. You see some Order piloting an Odin, you'd go "How?" Then the story. That can prompt people to read stories.

Admit it, do you,read every single story? Cuz I sure don't; some just aren't my cup of tea, to be frank. So I can't see how unique that character is.




Please note I am sticking with examples I can best explain.


Clarification: this is to your first post casero:P

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.

[Vogel]

I'm sure Eva McDowell would be as intimidating as usual without a cruiser under her belt. I'm sure the Persephone would be just as unique if it was just another Jinkusu. Or the Necrosis.

And in the meantime for all the people who try to act out a cruiser boarded during a fight and taken over, they'll have to fly an Eagle and make believe it's a 100,000 ton starship, 'lest they mount the wrong ID. I'm sure everybody else would play along with it and maybe only use one gun or so to simulate damage correctly.

I'm not buying any of your arguments thus far. They're based on this vague concept that "roleplay exceeds what exists on the server", yet on the server things are concrete and exist as they are. You cannot make a mountain out of a mole hill. To say that "the ship doesn't make a character" is, in essence, claiming that a game using nothing but ships is somehow more encompassing than that.

[casero]

But not everyone reads stoties on the forums. You see some Order piloting an Odin, you'd go "How?" Then the story. That can prompt people to read stories.

Admit it, do you,read every single story? Cuz I sure don't; some just aren't my cup of tea, to be frank. So I can't see how unique that character is.
Please note I am sticking with examples I can best explain.
Clarification: this is to your first post casero:P

See... my point is, I don't need an Odin to play a former hessian joining The Order. That it can add diversity? Of course it can, but that not having an Odin my former hessian character will be restricted in any way is wrong. To see how a character is you have to know him, how? Talk to him. The only thing I deduce from the ship and guns you have is the way I should fight in case that action happens.

I'm sure Eva McDowell would be as intimidating as usual without a cruiser under her belt. I'm sure the Persephone would be just as unique if it was just another Jinkusu. Or the Necrosis.

And in the meantime for all the people who try to act out a cruiser boarded during a fight and taken over, they'll have to fly an Eagle and make believe it's a 100,000 ton starship, 'lest they mount the wrong ID. I'm sure everybody else would play along with it and maybe only use one gun or so to simulate damage correctly.

I'm not buying any of your arguments thus far. They're based on this vague concept that "roleplay exceeds what exists on the server", yet on the server things are concrete and exist as they are. You cannot make a mountain out of a mole hill. To say that "the ship doesn't make a character" is, in essence, claiming that a game using nothing but ships is somehow more encompassing than that.

I don't know who Eva McDowell is, I assume by the way you describe her, it's a pirate with a cruiser, correct me if I am wrong, please.
It's a pirate, which is not a new role, what difference it makes? Traders have less chances to escape, the cruiser gives her (assuming the player is also a woman) nothing but PvP advantage, if we talk outside PvP, she could grab the same cruiser with the proper ID to fly it, and say that Eva McDowell is inside the cruiser, but of course, she couldn't pirate with it, but then it's just a matter of PvP, which is very important, but it doesn't restrict a character's ability to improve its story.

And sorry, but yes, Role Play exceeds what exists on the server, otherwise the first RPGs would have never existed, which consisted on just some dices, a token representing a character, papers, pens and a lot of imagination. Sorry, but I'm not buying your argument that "my ship and my guns are what my character is".

[Jeremy Hunter]

Eva is a JUNKER with a Rogue Scylla casero:P


And really, yes, I,could do that. But really, why? If I roleplsy a Hessian who defected to the,Order, why,should he have to give up,his ship? wouldnt it also be roleplay he went on patrol and never returned? Whats wrong with that?! Its roleplay, and wouldnt someone want a ship they are familiar with to fly, and not something entirely new.

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.