' Wrote:[font=Agency FB]Of course I want SRP to be cool. You play your characters to be lame? I don't really care if you like the idea of roleplaying characters exactly like everyone else can. I don't like it. Why should I play a roleplaying game if I have to be limited in my roleplay so much? The fact noone NEEDS SRP doesn't mean they shouldn't be able to get it. There's a million damn explanations to ANY SRP that can be thought of, yet people would dismiss them as invalid cause they think otherwise. And I don't know why you keep droning about the administration having loads of work, when it was already proposed countless times already that there would be a group of PLAYERS determining the SRP valid or invalid. You ran into a Corsair who you roleplayed with, one in a million. I'm betting the Sails would just execute you on the spot without any extra words other than "die Hunter". A lot of different factions would, and it's happened to me countless times, even after I tried to politely let them know I'm not hostile. Yes, I believe it WOULD change things if I flew a Freelancer or Merc ID'd Thresher, you know why? Then I'd have an ace up my sleeve to weasel out of a corsair bomberswarm that I stole the ship. A blatant lie, but it's not OORP to lie. Whenever you flew ANYTHING (perhaps other than a Zonerzonerzoner) you will get shot at by the first character who's bored, you're red to him and he just happens to be on your path with a bomber or something alike.
Regardless of if it is the administration or another group of players, until the attitude of the players changes who ever is managing the system will eventually quit due to the sheer volume of requests that are posted. Did you forget that with the SRP system, the admins never saw a SRP that didn't pass through a faction leader or two? Even with that shield, the admins felt the system to be unmanageable.
You debase my example as to how I escaped being killed by a Corsair with the excuse that other players won't buy it. Then you say that you could escape by having a Merc ID. Guess what? I'll use your very own reasoning to debase your example. Its a one in a million chance you'll run into a Corsair that won't kill you, same as mine.
I'm a Reaver, I encountered a Kruger miner last night. He was red to me. I was bored. Guess what? He didn't die, even though there was a bounty on his head. Why? As a player I understand it sucks to lose all your ore. What did I do? My character told him of the bounty and then mused on about how much the bounty was and how much wine and cheese he could buy with it. The said the only thing that would make him happier than that was even more wine and cheese. The miner caught on and paid me 5 million (bounty was for 4), to not shoot him.
As I said, until the player's attitude changes no SRP system will be manageable and sustainable. Until one is manageable and sustainable, the admins won't open another. There have been multiple good suggestions by many people. All I've seen from you is whine about why the admins want to block your special role play, and your opinion on why your examples have merit. Neither of which help solve the issue at hand nor further our effort to have a SRP system in place on this server.
' Wrote:[color=#FFFFFF][font=Agency FB]1. Why would I fly it COMPLETELY without guns? To get shot down by anyone who feels like it? But if the need be, I said I'd mount weaker than cruiser turrets on it if that was required of me.
2. Yes, but a lone bounty hunter captain is marked as scum in the eyes of everything that he's red to. Why would he HAVE to fight against Corsairs for example? Or Order? Do tell, if the captain doesn't WANT to fight them, but he's still obliged to if he's part of the Core, and he doesn't want to relinquish his capship while going into... I don't know, retirement or something. It's easily explained and not that ridiculous, you know.
1. Because pirates would have to gather pretty strong force to stop you from running to base/surviving. Otherwise you're just almost invincible researcher.
2. Avoid territory of your enemies ? It is impossible inRP to keep Bounty Hunter capital ship if you're "retired" or whatever. If your enemies wouldn't kill you, Bounty Hunters would.
' Wrote:If you're not creative to enjoy roleplaying a character over long periods of time and making money with that character, then perhaps SRP is not for you.
Of course, you can always get a week loan for your request, wouldn't that work?
I don't make any money at all anymore. I used to but it is boring and stupid, so nowadays I just sell one of my unused ships when I need a bit of money. The characters I like RPing usually don't make any money. I like freedom fighter and political RP. Should I be denied something, because I don't like being a trader? May only hardcore traders get special things? I think not. I don't want to play this game all day to make money without having fun. I prefer having some RP I like. I don't think that is something you can blame me for. And loans? Then what? The request might get disapproved and I gotta find a way to pay back the money quickly, not nice idea.
' Wrote:That's always better than the current state which is no SRPs whatsoever.
I don't like grinding myself but I made few billions enjoying trader/smuggler RP.
Anyhow if you request got approved you would get the money back but the risk is there.
Either it is available for everyone or for none I'd say. My solution would rather be more white cells.
' Wrote:Either it is available for everyone or for none I'd say. My solution would rather be more white cells.
Requiring a fee doesn't mean it is closed to anyone. No one is stopping you from going and acquiring the credits to pay the fee except yourself. If you can't be arsed to meet a single requirement, why should anyone be arsed to review your SRP? Hrm?
A special role play request should be that, special. It should require more effort than your typical role play effort because it grants you something a typical role play effort doesn't. Is a large sum of credits the only thing? I wouldn't think so, that is there for the same reason its there in regards to creating an official faction.
' Wrote:Requiring a fee doesn't mean it is closed to anyone. No one is stopping you from going and acquiring the credits to pay the fee except yourself. If you can't be arsed to meet a single requirement, why should anyone be arsed to review your SRP? Hrm?
A special role play request should be that, special. It should require more effort than your typical role play effort because it grants you something a typical role play effort doesn't. Is a large sum of credits the only thing? I wouldn't think so, that is there for the same reason its there in regards to creating an official faction.
I am playing this game for fun and will not do something when it is not fun, because than it is beyond the purpose of why I play this game. A fee would mean you'd discriminate against those who do not find money-grinding fun.
' Wrote:I am playing this game for fun and will not do something when it is not fun, because than it is beyond the purpose of why I play this game. A fee would mean you'd discriminate against those who do not find money-grinding fun.
This.
White cell the tech chart, let the faction leads do what they wish. It would take a load off and allow people discover more RPs.
Because I thought this was DISCOVERY, not "All Discovered"
Having skimmed this over briefly I have to say there have been a lot of good points raised on many sides.... I also think Athenian has taken the lions share of the "philosophical" issues of SRPs pretty well so i'm not going to wade in there.
However, as an Admin that was present both when we brought in SRPs and when we decided to get rid of them I can add my 5c worth:
I should say beforehand that in principle, im in favour of SRPs.... I like the idea of a certain amount of freedom being allowed in each individuals Role play...However, there is idealism and there is reality. So here is what actually was happening with SRPs when we allowed them:
1: Everyone wanted them... im not kidding, we would get loads of them. Many were, as pointed out in this thread, based on good RP with good stories, however an equal amount were not... it got to the point, and though he isn't here at this stage to chime in, Hoodlum could say this better than I... where every man and his dog was wanting a "special" ship to do something "special"....
2: Many many many many SRPs were for PVP advantage. I know people "say" they wont do it, but the practicality of it was that many requests were for better guns, better ships that conveyed a PVP advantage. We tended in the judging process btw to consider these requests FAR less favorably than ones that were based more on storyline needs - but it got the point where it was starting to get silly in some cases. Some "stories" (and I use inverted commas deliberately) were thinly veiled texts that we knew would never be followed up, written for the purpose of "pure tech: requests because we insisted some form of story needed to be written for an SRP to be considered. People were, to Quote Hoodlum again, "simply taking the piss"......
Were some people just not good and prolific story writers? Absolutely. Were some people possibly just expanding on RP that happened in game? Probably. But it got to the point where with many requests, we couldn't tell anymore.
3: People got jealous. Basically: "Why can he have "X" when I cant have "Y"? with all the silly claims of favoritism and elitism thrown in. Over numerous Admin skype calls these issues were discussed and it basically got to the point where someone asked "why arent we just letting everyone have what they want?"... at some point we needed to:
4: Draw a line in the sand. We have IDs and we have allowances on the Tech chart. We needed, for our own sanity and the general sanity of the server, to reset the absolute shenanigans that was occurring from SRPs and draw the proverbial line and say "You are Liberty Navy, you have a LN ID, you know from the tech chart what you can and cant fly and arm yourself with so do that already. If you want to be "special" than Role play it in game."
5: Why have a tech chart at all? This was an issue. If we have a tech chart, why are we letting people go outside it? When every Tom, Dick and Harry wants a "special" combo for whatever reason, why dont we just let people fly whatever they want? Obviously this was not acceptable.
Was the process flawed? Definitely. At the time many of the Admins who were involved were not even fans of it... some of those admins are gone now, some are not, others are no longer admins. However the whole thing was a bone of contention between players, Admins and the general atmosphere of the server and for the most part we were glad to be done with them.
Are we going to have SRPs again? I dont know. As i said, in principle myself, im in favour, but its a very slippery slope....
But this discussion has been interesting, Keep it up all.
' Wrote:I've read the posts through all of this from last time, and there were basically the same points being made over and over.
' Wrote:Athenian wants you (or I think he wants you) to realize that it's not the system entirely that needs changing, but also the attitude of the player.
' Wrote:Basically what is being said is, player attitudes need to change so that a true SRP system can be implemented and sustained. Without that, no system will work as intended and will be unsustainable.
' Wrote:That means you guys need to shape up if you plan on taking this on, it doesn't mean let's try to lower the bar. Take the challenge, take the conditions; if SRP's are important to you, then you wont for a second complain about some hinderance, you wont try to ponder it out, you'll show respect and show that you will fit the system, not the other way around.
' Wrote:Ignoring the problem because you don't want to hear it, doesn't solve it. The problem does indeed lay in the community first. If we changed as a community, the SRP system would work and be sustainable. Due to our attitudes, it became unmanagable. Thus they closed it. The admins want us to be happy, they are willing to have a SRP system, but they demand one that they can manage. No SRP system will be manageable until player attitude changes.
' Wrote:If you can't be arsed to meet a single requirement, why should anyone be arsed to review your SRP? Hrm?
But you'll notice this contradiction:
' Wrote:cyn·i·cal
–adjective
1. like or characteristic of a cynic; distrusting or disparaging the motives of others.
2. showing contempt for accepted standards of honesty or morality by one's actions, especially by actions that exploit the scruples of others.
3. bitterly or sneeringly distrustful, contemptuous, or pessimistic.
' Wrote:Again, your entire SRP is built around the notion of, being cool.
' Wrote:Guess what? None of them would be special because everyone has it. The special people would be those using standard stuff. Go figure.
Deadric; less arguement, more discussion. You may be saying basically what I'm saying over again, and that's fine, but I'm afraid the manner that you're doing it is not appropriate for this enviorment. I suggest you, as with everyone, to read or atleast skim through the last few pages before coming in here and posting. Make your posts count more and work towards a solution; getting your own solution is secondary to actually achieving a solution that works for the community, and don't you dare say that your solution works for the community because you aren't the community.
Work together, understand eachothers sides, DISCUSS. As for Deadric, I suggest you set an example with a more positive and mature attitude, because regardless of "who you are", this isn't working and if it is I will make sure it wont work.
Thanks, next post I do will be centric on the issue of SRP rather than the issue of a quandary (haha) of the discussors.
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