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Most trading factions have 5kers, though, which is part of what separates them from non-trading factions. I'd also push back on this just for a specific point - Liberty's Bison was specifically designed to transport marines and military cargo, and it has been an integral part of Liberty's military roleplay in general and the Navy's in specific for years. The existence of the Navy Logistics Corps has never really hurt any trading faction yet simultaneously created an interesting piece of the Navy that created quite a few well-enjoyed stories.
I don't think this entire "frigate overhaul" is really needed. At best, seeing a couple more ships that were pseudo-gunboats like the Corvo available to different groups, like superheavy gunboats, would be interesting to see and I'd appreciate a bit more granularity between the gunboat and cruiser classes like the Battlecruiser between cruiser and battleship, but I don't think there's anything in the current ecosystem in re military factions and cargo size, and I think pursuing this too heavily and changing the overall ecosystem for the negative is a solution in search of a problem.
(05-08-2019, 08:26 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: For an escort frigate, I'd like to see something with a mere 1200-1600 cargo, the size of a light gunboat, with an improved 179 m/s thrust, equipped with 4 light gunboat slots, one heavy gunboat slot, a light gunboat power core, and the agility of a gunboat.
Where we are again ! Come on!! Do you guys even know what is a frigate and what it stands in the navy? A frigate is stronger and bigger than a gunboat or a corvette, but weaker and smaller than a cruiser or even a destroyer! The Raba and the Salvager are not frigates! they are armored transports. The only thing closer to a frigate in game is a Corvo. Doing a new class of ship where will bring a lot of hard work making it, and then balancing it! My opinion the Corvo could be buff with more turrets, and there you have it, a frigate. And also there is another problem ... who was going to have a frigate? Every faction of course. So how many frigates mod/dev would have to make? a lot of then. Even If some factions "cooperate" in the design, like bretonia and liberty, and there is an civilian frigatte or a borderworld frigate that many factions, mainly freelancers and zoners and mainly outlaw, could use ... that is still many new ships to work, to balance. and what about the equip? and weapons and shileds like the ones that were made to battlecruisers? you people are asking to much.
but ... like it was said ... some models could be changed!!! The Raba could be armor upgraded and lower the cargo hold, and core upgraded .. ok but very few factions can use it. if you change the salavager many people will be angry because they lost their mining/transport, and then the Corvo .... more guns ok but ... will liberty of kusary or rhienland or many others use it? then here we go again, a new frigate to all of then!
final opinion .... let's keep it the way it is. tehre are more things important to be done.
(05-08-2019, 10:36 PM)Lusitano Wrote: Where we are again ! Come on!! Do you guys even know what is a frigate and what it stands in the navy? A frigate is stronger and bigger than a gunboat or a corvette, but weaker and smaller than a cruiser or even a destroyer! The Raba and the Salvager are not frigates! they are armored transports. The only thing closer to a frigate in game is a Corvo. Doing a new class of ship where will bring a lot of hard work making it, and then balancing it! My opinion the Corvo could be buff with more turrets, and there you have it, a frigate. And also there is another problem ... who was going to have a frigate? Every faction of course. So how many frigates mod/dev would have to make? a lot of then. Even If some factions "cooperate" in the design, like bretonia and liberty, and there is an civilian frigatte or a borderworld frigate that many factions, mainly freelancers and zoners and mainly outlaw, could use ... that is still many new ships to work, to balance. and what about the equip? and weapons and shileds like the ones that were made to battlecruisers? you people are asking to much.
but ... like it was said ... some models could be changed!!! The Raba could be armor upgraded and lower the cargo hold, and core upgraded .. ok but very few factions can use it. if you change the salavager many people will be angry because they lost their mining/transport, and then the Corvo .... more guns ok but ... will liberty of kusary or rhienland or many others use it? then here we go again, a new frigate to all of then!
final opinion .... let's keep it the way it is. tehre are more things important to be done.
take care all
I bothered to read only the first few sentences, so one ship for everyone to use should do the trick at first. At least for testing purposes.
(05-08-2019, 10:36 PM)Lusitano Wrote: Where we are again ! Come on!! Do you guys even know what is a frigate and what it stands in the navy? A frigate is stronger and bigger than a gunboat or a corvette, but weaker and smaller than a cruiser or even a destroyer! The Raba and the Salvager are not frigates! they are armored transports. The only thing closer to a frigate in game is a Corvo. Doing a new class of ship where will bring a lot of hard work making it, and then balancing it! My opinion the Corvo could be buff with more turrets, and there you have it, a frigate. And also there is another problem ... who was going to have a frigate? Every faction of course. So how many frigates mod/dev would have to make? a lot of then. Even If some factions "cooperate" in the design, like bretonia and liberty, and there is an civilian frigatte or a borderworld frigate that many factions, mainly freelancers and zoners and mainly outlaw, could use ... that is still many new ships to work, to balance. and what about the equip? and weapons and shileds like the ones that were made to battlecruisers? you people are asking to much.
but ... like it was said ... some models could be changed!!! The Raba could be armor upgraded and lower the cargo hold, and core upgraded .. ok but very few factions can use it. if you change the salavager many people will be angry because they lost their mining/transport, and then the Corvo .... more guns ok but ... will liberty of kusary or rhienland or many others use it? then here we go again, a new frigate to all of then!
final opinion .... let's keep it the way it is. tehre are more things important to be done.
take care all
I bothered to read only the first few sentences, so one ship for everyone to use should do the trick at first. At least for testing purposes.
sure!! a lot of gallic frigate frigates entering new london been pursuit by several same frigate but libertonian and bret , while corsairs same frigate appear from behind, while red hessians and img same frigates raid bret interest on omega 3!! and this was just an example!! right! i'm already imagening the drama!!!
give the dev/mods a break and use what already is on the game. want to test? buff the corvo
(05-08-2019, 08:26 PM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: For an escort frigate, I'd like to see something with a mere 1200-1600 cargo, the size of a light gunboat, with an improved 179 m/s thrust, equipped with 4 light gunboat slots, one heavy gunboat slot, a light gunboat power core, and the agility of a gunboat.
So a salvager but extremely good??
Buffed in some ways, and weakened in others. The salvager has 5 light gb turrets and 2 heavies, comparable to a heavy gunboat. My proposed ship has 4 lights, and 1 heavy, which is less than the lightest gunboat (and it doesn't have a cruiser core like the corvo to make full use of those slots). So, it's not "Extremely good", but rather, a light gunboat with only 1 heavy turret, and some extra cargo space.
It would be faster, though, making it more suitable for protecting traders. This is, of course, only one particular ship I'd like to be made this way, as a light escort frigate. Most frigates should be heavier, but no larger than the salvager.
(05-08-2019, 10:36 PM)Lusitano Wrote: Where we are again ! Come on!! Do you guys even know what is a frigate and what it stands in the navy? A frigate is stronger and bigger than a gunboat or a corvette, but weaker and smaller than a cruiser or even a destroyer! The Raba and the Salvager are not frigates! they are armored transports. The only thing closer to a frigate in game is a Corvo. Doing a new class of ship where will bring a lot of hard work making it, and then balancing it! My opinion the Corvo could be buff with more turrets, and there you have it, a frigate. And also there is another problem ... who was going to have a frigate? Every faction of course. So how many frigates mod/dev would have to make? a lot of then. Even If some factions "cooperate" in the design, like bretonia and liberty, and there is an civilian frigatte or a borderworld frigate that many factions, mainly freelancers and zoners and mainly outlaw, could use ... that is still many new ships to work, to balance. and what about the equip? and weapons and shileds like the ones that were made to battlecruisers? you people are asking to much.
but ... like it was said ... some models could be changed!!! The Raba could be armor upgraded and lower the cargo hold, and core upgraded .. ok but very few factions can use it. if you change the salavager many people will be angry because they lost their mining/transport, and then the Corvo .... more guns ok but ... will liberty of kusary or rhienland or many others use it? then here we go again, a new frigate to all of then!
final opinion .... let's keep it the way it is. tehre are more things important to be done.
take care all
I am aware of what real frigates are like, however developers have made it very clear that they don't want to add a new class to the game. A class in between gunboats and cruisers would require a new gun class in order to have a suitable range for such a ship type.
So, I'm willing to settle for them being made more like armored transports, with a scale in between gunboats and cruisers but without the in-between weapons.
(05-09-2019, 12:04 AM)Lusitano Wrote:
(05-08-2019, 11:51 PM)Nepotu Wrote:
(05-08-2019, 10:36 PM)Lusitano Wrote: Where we are again ! Come on!! Do you guys even know what is a frigate and what it stands in the navy? A frigate is stronger and bigger than a gunboat or a corvette, but weaker and smaller than a cruiser or even a destroyer! The Raba and the Salvager are not frigates! they are armored transports. The only thing closer to a frigate in game is a Corvo. Doing a new class of ship where will bring a lot of hard work making it, and then balancing it! My opinion the Corvo could be buff with more turrets, and there you have it, a frigate. And also there is another problem ... who was going to have a frigate? Every faction of course. So how many frigates mod/dev would have to make? a lot of then. Even If some factions "cooperate" in the design, like bretonia and liberty, and there is an civilian frigatte or a borderworld frigate that many factions, mainly freelancers and zoners and mainly outlaw, could use ... that is still many new ships to work, to balance. and what about the equip? and weapons and shileds like the ones that were made to battlecruisers? you people are asking to much.
but ... like it was said ... some models could be changed!!! The Raba could be armor upgraded and lower the cargo hold, and core upgraded .. ok but very few factions can use it. if you change the salavager many people will be angry because they lost their mining/transport, and then the Corvo .... more guns ok but ... will liberty of kusary or rhienland or many others use it? then here we go again, a new frigate to all of then!
final opinion .... let's keep it the way it is. tehre are more things important to be done.
take care all
I bothered to read only the first few sentences, so one ship for everyone to use should do the trick at first. At least for testing purposes.
sure!! a lot of gallic frigate frigates entering new london been pursuit by several same frigate but libertonian and bret , while corsairs same frigate appear from behind, while red hessians and img same frigates raid bret interest on omega 3!! and this was just an example!! right! i'm already imagening the drama!!!
give the dev/mods a break and use what already is on the game. want to test? buff the corvo
The devs don't have to make most of the ships added to the game anymore. The vast majority of new ships have been developed by the community. All the developers have to do is approve of the idea, and people who want it bad enough will work together to produce it. Then the developers need only do the final touches of implementing it.
(05-09-2019, 01:50 AM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: So, I'm willing to settle for them being made more like armored transports, with a scale in between gunboats and cruisers but without the in-between weapons
but we already have that in game! at least sort of! the examples gave like the salvager and raba, has well other transports that have plenty of turrets and armor!
and about the devs ... good that others make it, but also i saw this , as well i spoke not long ago with a dev about few stuff, and despite he agrees with me, he said that there plenty of discussion about several stuff, and many are so easy and fair stuff, and i can't imagine the discussion that would be on creating a that kind of ships!
if people want a ship that could make escorts, make patrols as also help the anti capital, simple .. get a destroyer or cruiser! i already saw videos of dessies taking capital ships as well gunboats and snubs! but if they think that a dessie is too big, then get a heavy gunboat. if anyone want to trade but with some defense capacity, there are some in game but if even so is not enough, ok make one. i still remember long time ago some proposals that were all denied for a small but well armored and armed version of the ZBT!! oh welll!!! again this is pointless.
(05-09-2019, 01:50 AM)TLI-Inferno Wrote: So, I'm willing to settle for them being made more like armored transports, with a scale in between gunboats and cruisers but without the in-between weapons
but we already have that in game! at least sort of! the examples gave like the salvager and raba, has well other transports that have plenty of turrets and armor!
and about the devs ... good that others make it, but also i saw this , as well i spoke not long ago with a dev about few stuff, and despite he agrees with me, he said that there plenty of discussion about several stuff, and many are so easy and fair stuff, and i can't imagine the discussion that would be on creating a that kind of ships!
if people want a ship that could make escorts, make patrols as also help the anti capital, simple .. get a destroyer or cruiser! i already saw videos of dessies taking capital ships as well gunboats and snubs! but if they think that a dessie is too big, then get a heavy gunboat. if anyone want to trade but with some defense capacity, there are some in game but if even so is not enough, ok make one. i still remember long time ago some proposals that were all denied for a small but well armored and armed version of the ZBT!! oh welll!!! again this is pointless.
take care all and have fun
We are aware of the salvager and raba. We're asking for more such ships. Yes, there are many transports with plenty of turrets and armor, however the larger transports tend to be very slow, which makes them poor escorts.
Cruisers don't have a fast enough thrust speed to be good escorts. A transport thrusts faster, and thus in order for a cruiser to keep up with it while protecting it, the transport has to sacrifice evading to slow down or turn around. Additionally, cruisers don't have much cargo capacity. A cruiser is also much more powerful than what we're asking for. They're also not allowed in other people's space.
don't get me wrong, i do agree with that of the transports and cruisers that are slow and all that stuff, and yes there should be more ships like the salvager, that is great, and the raba that i confess never flew, but don't call then frigates because they are not frigates. i even just gave you one simple example of someone wanted to give one such kind to a faction and was completly denied and that was really long ago .... several years ago. so what you ask i agree as long all could have one. what some want ... a full military vessel ... a real frigate i don't agree with it. there are gunboats and destroyers/cruisers! that is just my point. armored transports yes but for all, frigates we don't need then.
(05-09-2019, 02:41 PM)Lusitano Wrote: don't get me wrong, i do agree with that of the transports and cruisers that are slow and all that stuff, and yes there should be more ships like the salvager, that is great, and the raba that i confess never flew, but don't call then frigates because they are not frigates. i even just gave you one simple example of someone wanted to give one such kind to a faction and was completly denied and that was really long ago .... several years ago. so what you ask i agree as long all could have one. what some want ... a full military vessel ... a real frigate i don't agree with it. there are gunboats and destroyers/cruisers! that is just my point. armored transports yes but for all, frigates we don't need then.
take care
I didn't choose to name the salvager as a Salvage Frigate. But since it's been established, I'd like for there to be more ships like it. Let's not waste any more time arguing about what these ships are, just because you're thinking of a completely different kind of ship.
We've made it clear what type of ship we're asking for in this thread, and it's not the same as the type of ship you're arguing against.