Quote:Outcast would have much more profit of selling Cardamine in Bretonia
implying that Brets will have money next 5 years to buy cardamine. No cardi in debt, kids.
SInce they will still pay loans to Liberty why bother to sell it in bretonia? Sell it in Liberty, and you will have Brets money anyway
Quote:raiding Dublin for gold
Why raid if you can just trade it in high tonnages?
I mean, just open trade > than illegal activity on stellar level. And its hard to say why Malta being sub-house out of Bretonia sphere of interests wont trade with them.
There need more reasons tbh, something what will render impossible major cooperation with brets.
Quote:Outcast would have much more profit of selling Cardamine in Bretonia
implying that Brets will have money next 5 years to buy cardamine. No cardi in debt, kids.
SInce they will still pay loans to Liberty why bother to sell it in bretonia? Sell it in Liberty, and you will have Brets money anyway
Quote:raiding Dublin for gold
Why raid if you can just trade it in high tonnages?
I mean, just open trade > than illegal activity on stellar level. And its hard to say why Malta being sub-house out of Bretonia sphere of interests wont trade with them.
There need more reasons tbh, something what will render impossible major cooperation with brets.
You can buy something (GOLD) or get something for free, with Bretonia infrastructure ruined it's easier than ever. Which option would you prefer if you were a mafia man? :thinking:
Bretonian drug market should prosper, because of the war losses and depression. Can you imagine how much it will cost if brought to bretonia by LR or LH? You were just claiming that Bretonians are too poor to buy it.
(10-12-2019, 05:25 PM)Mr.Cardaminum Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 05:03 PM)Sicicega Wrote:
(10-12-2019, 04:39 PM)Durandal Wrote: Nowadays the pool of those more casual players has diminished to the point that there is no force capable of standing against the RHA, Enclave (combined factions), or Outcasts (combined factions).
Outcasts are only having a 'good' numbers because they made peace with local factions that they are supposed to be in war with. After Gallic threat is gone, there's no reason for Bretonian and CR ceasefire to stay in place. Outcast would have much more profit of selling Cardamine in Bretonia without limitations or raiding Dublin for gold, going for direct clash with Corsairs over illegal activities in Bretonia. Bretonia was pretty much the only House where they fought directly in vanilla. I can't say that the current OC player base is stronger than let's say BAF or CR skillwise. When they fight let's say IMG and randoms only, of course, they are outnumbering. Solution with the Outcasts I see is for devs to resume natural wars that Outcasts are supposed to fight in Taus and Bretonia, end Zonercast type of Maltese diplomacy. Bretonia in general is the blindspot in the Outcast activity for years, it was excused with looming gallic threat, which now practically does not exist. This will majorly fix one of the points that you have mentioned.
What attracted me to Disco is opportunity to try out geopolitical theories in practice. Yeah, disco's politics are simplistic. Yeah, the lore and players' actions are quite illogical at times, but there is still the lure of "international relations put to practice". Bretonia, according to the theory, is one of the most logical allies for OC: it is strong economically, it is distant, and shares mutual enemies. So should we be as OC put against Bretonia, the conflict will be stillborn from the very start for it would lack geopolitical logic, similarly to how most conflicts in disco lack it (just look at Rheinland-Kusari war that was not needed, had no solid reasoning behind it, and caused only further drama in Rheinland).
Do we lack gameplay with Bretonia being friendly? I doubt it. Liberty and Kusari are still out there, so is Gallia should we want to spread Cardamine into it. IMG is there, Crayter might become hostile, etc. But I highly doubt OC playerbase would raid Bretonia for no reason. If me, as one of the leaders of current OC am not reflecting the will of the playerbase and unofficial and official factions of OC not being pleased with me - I will gladly step down and will not put efforts in creating logical in my view diplomatic and political lore. But then please, keep the logic of inRP conflict in place then, explaining well why Bretonia and Malta suddenly become at odds with each other.
However, I think that this will just cause a trigger of people on both sides feeling betrayed with their RP cast aside as if it had never happened and instead of bringing activity to the OC - you will just kill the OC. OC have been pretty dead quite recently, they can get back to that stage when silent MNS would be farming missions in O Tau and that would be it.
OC are the primary unlawful power in upper Sirius. The conglomerate of drug mafia cartels. Not a corporation for legal trade in Bretonia and CR. Mafia bosses are also not known for deep political theory. If you want to build House style politics, then you should play Houses, they get plenty of that. The game was designed in mind with OC playing the role of one of the two leading aggressive and scary unlawful powers, who got some serious backing due to the fact of them basing on the distant planets.
Those agreements are not your fault, they were made before you, and you shall not take any criticism towards the Outcasts on your personal behalf. Durandal has addressed the legit problem with the Outcasts, which were caused by the war that is now gone.
As for the player base being betrayed or something. Gallic Royalist player base got a massive setback with the lost war, it's not like it reflected our dedication to playing it, now with the enclave. Excuse me, but there's no way that people will stop playing factions because of agreements that were made like 7 yaers ago or something. Give me a break there.
Marketing often trumps the quality of the product being sold. Discovery is no different. You improve things here and I'll do what I can to bring more people in.
(10-12-2019, 05:27 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: Well sir it's nice to know the dev team is aware of the problems. But, you are the one we expect the solutions from! Not just pointing out the problems.
The problems I pointed out, save for a properly written summary, are people problems. I can't solve people, none of us can. Something about leading horses to water and all that.
With a common logic one can quickly come to a conclusion that a society that existed for 8 years on a separate planet with 500 million population would have an organisation - sort of a government. Criminal in nature? Why not, it renders it a rogue state then. But still a state. Statecraft, in its turn, will lead to political analysis akin to how mafia lords take actions on business. This is an inevitable logic of state evolution: the common thugs who aligned with the bolsheviks came to power in Russia in 1917, and yet still formed a government.
Having this in mind, look at mafia nowadays. Be it Italian mafia or Japanese yakuza - both strive to get legal business to have a back plan. Same applies to Malta. Why raiding Bretonia and risking stuff when we can legally invest and/or buy stuff there? After the war the price will be quite depreciated and investments can return good profits. No risks attached. Gold? We are legally getting gold from Bretonia. In much larger quantity if compared to what we could have raided.
And as for the leaving - I do not people who do can leave. Hell, I myself left Coalition after creating and leading a faction there for quite a while with tons of lore written. Just because it made little logic to stay there. I will not switch to playing Houses politics for I do not like either of the Houses. Probably, if not OC - then just Ai or something. But being dedicated to simple criminals that somehow lived for 800 years on a planet and made no stade? Nah, my brain won't tolerate it. Probably, instead of writing all this lore I should just go and play stellaris.
EDIT: Shikis take about cardamine is right one imho, its really interesting question, if it low tier drug in bretonia lore wise. If its like heroine here at 90th, with tonnes going from afgan, its can be solid reason.
Quote:You can buy something (GOLD) or get something for free, with Bretonia infrastructure ruined it's easier than ever. Which option would you prefer if you were a mafia man? :thinking:
Bretonian drug market should prosper, because of the war losses and depression. Can you imagine how much it will cost if brought to bretonia by LR or LH? You were just claiming that Bretonians are too poor to buy it.
Expenses on raids would be higher than on just trade on big scale. Its never free, because you should pay to every amigo participating in raid. Really big profits from shady activity goes mostly from being untaxed, not from just seize something free, because its never free when you share profit to your hanchmen.
There should be something in current lore from what Malta cant in comparable big trade, or big taxes inside bretonia on outer trade to justificate this way of operations.
Only in case that cardi will be cheap tier drug in bretonia (i'm just dont know is it in lore or not, so not sure). For example in Russia heroine was cheap-tier drug and cocaine always was rich-tier one.
Quote:Mafia bosses are also not known for deep political theory.
Where is borderline between politics and mafia?)
Russian politic elite and industrial bosses look amased at statements like that
@Mr.Cardaminum
Why do you theorize so much? It's a game that is not making much sense. But even then I think that feudal countries can easily be a thing with 500 million people, considering they are spread over the full-sized planet. Pretty sure that feudal Europe had a higher population density at that point. But I fail to ee the purpose of going in and trying to counter vanilla lore that directly. I mean yes, it's some kind of feudal noble republic that is exporting drugs. Drug cartels in Latin America are rich and powerful enough to fight the government armies without being a state. Fighting armies is including a large degree of organization and discipline, mind you.
You are implying that there are reliable ways to deliver large amounts of goods from Bretonia to Malta in the first place. Why? Or you implying that it would be transported to Malta in large amounts in the first place which is kind of wrong. It would make much more sense to sell it on the local black markets with Junkers and whatnot. And bring to Malta stuff that is needed there.
I don't want you to leave or say that your RP is bad. I welcome RP player lore written, as long as it's not countering vanilla or harming the gameplay. Which is sadly the case in current Outcast Tau and Bretonian diplomacy. At least Durandals points made on the Outcasts are just objectively basing on it. With that, sadly, you are going in direction of Republic of Malta, which is far from canon Outcast play.
Quote:You can buy something (GOLD) or get something for free, with Bretonia infrastructure ruined it's easier than ever. Which option would you prefer if you were a mafia man? :thinking:
Bretonian drug market should prosper, because of the war losses and depression. Can you imagine how much it will cost if brought to bretonia by LR or LH? You were just claiming that Bretonians are too poor to buy it.
Expenses on raids would be higher than on just trade on big scale. Its never free, because you should pay to every amigo participating in raid. Really big profits from shady activity goes mostly from being untaxed, not from just seize something free, because its never free when you share profit to your hanchmen.
There should be something in current lore from what Malta cant in comparable big trade, or big taxes inside bretonia on outer trade to justificate this way of operations.
Only in case that cardi will be cheap tier drug in bretonia (i'm just dont know is it in lore or not, so not sure). For example in Russia heroine was cheap-tier drug and cocaine always was rich-tier one.
Quote:Mafia bosses are also not known for deep political theory.
Where is borderline between politics and mafia?)
Russian politic elite and industrial bosses look amased at statements like that
P.S. Shikis take about cardamine is right one imho, its really interesting question, if it low tier drug in bretonia lore wise. If its like heroine here at 90th, with tonnes going from afgan, its can be solid reason.
I mean I see no point in replying to that, to be honest. Why are you talking about Russia here? Are you okay?
(10-12-2019, 05:03 PM)Sicicega Wrote: the fact that RM is preferring to log off when RHA is logging, and that's the problem.
It's not just RM avoiding RHA. It's simpler and natural. It's deeper than factions. It's players A, B, C and D trying to not be humiliated again by quick deaths (by being memed, as we say here) by players X, Y, Z and Q. As we are less than 100 players here, ofc we know each other. Some factions are made of X, Y, Z and Q and some less demanding ones of A, B, C and D. So, X, Y, Z and Q will fly together in order to enjoy the game on their level and A, B, C and D will shamelessly log off on sight. After few weeks of that A, B, C and D will find some other game where they won't feel like cowards all the time. Then X, Y, Z and Q will realise they must play with each other and switch to Minecraft.
The problem is we know each other. We didn't have it before we all joined Skype some years ago. But, even then some aces realised winning all the time might kill the game, so they were logging to weaker side. Ofc, they got bored and left after few years of that. Endlessly logging to help some lazy to train noobs is not natural, as we all must admit.
Solutions?
- I don't see forcing skilled players to fly with noobs leads to good place. That's for disciplined people, like good old Justin. We are not all like him (thanks God )
- Ships as they are are rewarding skill greatly. Maybe there lies part of solution. But why would people train, if their ships wouldn't reward it?
- Also denying knowledge about enemy would bring element of surprise back. We all need it. But how?
EDIT: I forgot to say advert is awesome. Unfortunately, if we don't change our gameplay, it will bring more people that will play how we play now.
With RHA (and any other faction in the numerous historical examples that this has happened with), it's a both sides thing. Both sides are completely correct in their problems with one another.
RHA commits excessive forces to one fight instead of telling half their group to go and pirate/look for encounters elsewhere if they have a numerical advantage. You can argue about that being InRP as much as you like; it doesn't motivate mass counter-logging. Mass counter-logging is motivated by close fights.
RM feels like winning is impossible (not without reason) so they frequently don't show up.
Both sides sometimes show reluctance to die. That's the biggest problem. It's totally okay to get blued - it doesn't mean anything.
Both players don't log the other side. I doubt there's many players in both discords.
Certain players, and not the majority of players, on both sides, are unresponsive to criticism. I've blown up at people myself, but nowadays I try to listen to the problems people have with how I do something. If I get mad and feel somebody's a dumbass, I step away from the keyboard and deal with it later. It's had positive effects and I've seen people react more positively to me because of it.
Positive fights against RHA are entirely possible. I had a really fun 1v1 earlier today, and we both thanked each other ingame afterwards. I plan to keep going after RHA and encouraging others to do it with me.
Certain RHA people, including the 1ic, shouldn't shame people for logging off. You don't know the reasons why people are logging off, all you see is the red message.
Certain RM shouldn't consider every large group of Hessians as a gank. Some of them are friends who just want to play together.
Death doesn't matter. Also it's completely possible for a bad player to once in a blue moon murder a good PVPer because the good PVPer screwed up. Numerical disadvantages matter more strategically than skill gaps after a certain point.
It's important to note that not every RM player is avoiding the Hessians, too, and some of the examples of people 'avoiding the Hessians' arn't true. I was accused of avoiding the Hessians until literally two days ago because I happened to be moving after other targets at the time and flew out of Hessian ZOI. Today I nearly flew out of my ZOI to specifically hunt a Hessian.
This is pretty simple stuff, guys.
THE SYNDIC LEAGUES
(A co-operative of Rheinland's Shipping Unions, retired from a life of piracy.)