I don't blame you Snak at all see - I understand you have personal issues with people, I understand you see how the game should be player differently from others
And on top of that you really are incentivised to find issues and keep them out as it will mean a hassle of more voices and people voting against you. I can't blame people in lib gov to vote against, nobody can.
My point is that you shouldn't have the power in the first place - oorp friendship and hostilities shouldn't matter in this case, a gov should be representative of official factions, or like I said - just taken away from players and back to devs altogether.
Either gov is just a government and players just aren't in it and it's dev controlled. Or gov belongs to players and is comprised of lawful factions of the house that represent it.
Dev controlled means you'll turn the game even more into a dev dictated matter than it is. You put a huge workload on devs with additional tasks, you rob players of new RP options. You still picture everything as if LibGov - LIA thing speaks for every Gov we have.
Funfact, look at my title and how I'm not an OF of any lawful faction there but an unlawful one. Big thonk, all like Liberty ye?
The house Govs function quite well and afaik they all included unlawfuls in past discussions when it concerns them by simple logic. A Gov processing a new BB or outlawing contraband doesn't require discussion with unlawfuls first, does it?
The absolute majority of actual big, impactful discussions are held in the relevant story chats where we see more than just OFLs of regions
As a member of GalGov, I can say that Govs decide themselves whom they want to see and whom they don't. LibGov and GalGov have votes and discussions, other Govs may have other means to decide on such things. Devs dictating to players what they MUST do is harmful for roleplay, forcing un-wanted people into Gov changes nothing as those people can be just ignored which leads to more drama, leaks etc.
I mean i guess, but like the other thing is the reputation of LIA is i guess not great in everyones eyes, as in we arent that well liked. I think libgov is full of decently responsible people, but like give LIA a chance. Im not an authority in this or anything, nor am i a veteran player like you guys, but the reputation of the few doent represent the reputation of the entire group
As faction leader I will have my final say on this thread. I was voted against a spot in LibGov... fine I accept that and move on with running my faction. Yes we are a young faction, but saying it is born out of lazy RP is insulting, a lot of work has gone on to make this happen. We made official and I am delighted by that fact, if people wish to advise me on improving relations with other factions and how to improve in general, I am all ears. But until then, we are going to do what we do and that is intel RP.
Hello! I'm not going to read the rest of the thread because I'm certain it would just make me unreasonably angry, so I will just make a post independent of that discussion.
I would like to let you know there were two votes held to see if LibGov would allow LIA in. One and Two. Don't hurt me for leaking snak3
As you can see, most of the entire group voted no. Why? For various reasons, but I don't know most of the reasoning of people in LibGov. Most of us actually do not like each other, believe it or not, so I can't say I'm friends with most of LibGov either.
Making governments developer controlled is silly, even if most of the time they're filled with developers. LibGov has 2 players per Liberty official faction (one for 5th and [LN] for some ancient decision I wasn't around for), representing the current playerbase of Liberty. But currently Cryer and Synth Foods are factions that don't fall under being viable for LibGov because of how (distance-wise) expansive they are, and being multi-national in their spread and presence. In that same vein, LIA has admitted to wanting to be largely outside of Liberty, performing intelligence operations on everything that is, again, outside of Liberty. It's the same thing with Synth and Cryer.
The other being High Command seen as undesirable, as you-know-who was caught editing votes when they were held on Google Drive (i dunno why they were there, before my time), and editing his votes in progress to change the outcome, as opposed to what was originally being voted on. Plus other things I wasn't around for, as it was all just shortly after I joined the vote to ban him was held. Knowing that he is your 2iC, we're also fully aware that he can manipulate your perspective as much as your voting.
Just a couple of the reasons for how the votes went the way they did, or as far as I can gather.
You can still play the game without being in LibGov. 99% of everything =LSF= does is entirely unrelated to LibGov.
You'd also be amazed to know how little actual control we have over the House, as GMs fine comb through every single thing we do.
Since you mentioned my name at the bottom of the OP I may as well give my opinions directly.
(09-26-2020, 06:54 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: It no longer is a representation of lawful factions in the house, it becomes an arbitrary group of buddies that can vote others out in their own self-interest
When the existing "group of people that receive power" can vote others in and out as they please, and on top of that do their decision-making hidden and in secret, yes they are very likely to turn into a group of buddies serving primarily themselves.
(09-26-2020, 06:54 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: I propose the solutions A) TAKE AWAY GOVS FROM PLAYERS AND BACK TO STORY DEVS AND GMs
- there would be fairness
- they would make in-lore sense
- their behavior would be coherent with story progression
- big negative: Less frequent posts and updates
What was said above this part of the quote is however not only true for house governments. It's also true for devs and game masters / admins, and they too at times behaved as / were a group of self-serving buddies.
The idea that things will be fair, make in lore sense, and be coherent, if you just replace one such group with another "higher" one which is even more buddy buddy than the first, is kinda naive or wishful thinking.
(09-26-2020, 06:54 PM)Relation-Ship Wrote: B) MAKE OFFICIAL LAWFUL FACTION INCLUSION AUTOMATIC
- This will prevent an arbitrary group of people doing what they want in their circle.
P.S. Suggestions were made like
- discussions and votes should also be publicly viewable by everyone. To prevent government voting be influenced by posts like "ha ha this is gonna screw over x player so bad they will be furious
- include unlawfulls into oorp discussions
etc.
Since house government discussions are almost exclusively oorp and will likely affect lawfuls as well as unlawfuls in the house, there is no reason why unlawfuls shouldnt be brought to the table. I'd even go a step further and say that if a gov decisions affects factions outside of the house, the official factions involved should be invited to oorp discuss their npc faction's interests too.
Accepting only lawful, and only certain lawful factions into votes and discussions, creates or enlargens existing rifts between them and the "outsiders".
People have raised concerns that some factions are too "immature" to be in their leaders club. To that I say that if that's true, they shouldnt have "official status" in the first place. And if they dont want to partake in community "governing" and in working things out, they probably dont really need to be official either.
Disco needs to finally define more clearly what an official faction is, what is expected of them, and what they are expected to NOT do (for example be entirely self serving unwilling to respect the interests of indies or other factions). That would be a much better solution than to add layers and layers of "in group out group" shenanigans with no clear boundaries or guiding principles.