Quote:Around ninety years have the zoners been doing such, and that's since the first zoner base.
Freeport 10 was under fire from the Outcasts for a long while, until quite recently, when the Outcasts backed off because of other pressures, and 9 has always been on the precipice of being seized by the Corsairs for the food. Freeport 2 historically capitulated to the Houses, shoving the Unioners and Xenos off their bases (why their are Unioner and Xeno bases in Hudson/Bering, rather than do anything so bold as tell the houses 'we're neutral'.
Seems Zoners have forgotten a history of capitulation to the houses and fierce struggle with the stronger pirate bands.
Perhaps you should get your facts straight Unseelie.
Quote:Built out of the old framework of an abandoned Republican Shipping outpost, Freeport 2 was founded in 650 A.S. by displaced Texas settlers, Hamburg drifters, and a variety of other individuals looking for safe haven. They aligned themselves with the Zoner movement and its open-to-all philosophy, then purchased a series of Synth Foods biodomes for food production. The exploding demand for food from the adjacent Texas Ssystem and from local criminal elements has provided them with a steady market for their surplus. Aside from the Zoners, Xenos and Unioners also frequent the station.
After checking the wiki regarding all Zoner planets and stations, it is verified that Freeport 2 was the first Freeport (odd being denoted as 2.) Current in game year is 818. If you do the math Zoners have been around for at least 168 years if you go by Freeport 2's founding date. The fact that they aligned themselves with the Zoner movement suggests Zoners have been around longer. Seems you need to read before you post.
As for Freeport 10? Yes, it was under fire but in game info cards state the Outcast backed off because they realized the Freeport was valuable to them, not because of other pressures.
9? Perhaps, though I have seen no in game info card stating its always been on the precipice of being seized.
2? Again, where is the in game info you speak of?
Seems you are mistaken or making things up in regards to your post.
My point with this thread was that it is becoming awfully annoying for the people that play Zoners to continually have to deal with everyone and their mother trying to force us to pick a side. It isn't within Zoner RP for us to pick a side and it isn't within RP for the other factions to make us pick a side, if it was it would have happened sooner. No, Zoners probably couldn't defend themselves in an all out war but that isn't why we have survived. We have been allowed to exist because what we provide is needed by almost everyone.
The Freeport system is a place of tax free trade, a place for lawfuls and unlawfuls to make under the table deals, and other such things these factions cannot normally do. An example is Liberty allowing Zoners political freedom in Erie because they understood the economical benefits it would bring.
Am I asking for Zoners to be immune to piracy? Hell no, my trade routes would be boring. What I want is for those of you that continually attack and mess with us is to consider the inRP consequences of your actions, whether they actually happen or not.
Example?
Corsairs, the extreme aggression of some Corsair players against any Zoner they encounter would eventually cause Crete to be starved. There are a few Corsair players that understand , most don't. As it cannot be effected in game why should they care? Some Corsair players disregard the benefits of being able to use a Freeport brings simply because they want to fight. A Freeport is the only place a Corsair could meet with a Outcast and not fight, or meet with an Outcast turncoat. All of this is disregarded because there are no inRP consequences.
Zoners are inRP neutral. The problem we Zoner players face is, other players disregard this RP fact and force us to pick a side or eat plasma and that isn't inRP for any faction. If it was we wouldn't exist.
I'm going to say that, ok, my facts aren't straight. A lot of my facts are word of mouth, I'm working on getting a whole lot of fact ammo, rather than what my feeling and experience and common sense dictate to me.
The gist of my statement is thus: Zoners are small, and they get pushed around. In recent memory, the OC, for example, were more or less trying to blow up freeport 10, which I think counts as a "state of war".
Freeport Two once had Unioners basing off it, but the houses asked the zoners to fix that nonsense, and the zoners picked, quite quickly, the house side.
Zoner's are -constantly- being asked to pick sides. Its not an assault on the roleplay of zoners for others to demand they pick a side, it is, frankly, poor roleplay on the zoner's part to claim that they don't have to make any hard decisions, ever. Zoner stations would constantly be making hard decisions, facing ultimatums, trade pressures, pirate threats, House demands. That's how being a polity in a populated world works.
As a group gains power, they lose the ability to be neutral. "Once you're on the board, you gotta choose a side."
Deny it, fight it all you want - but that's just how the world works, I'm sorry.
Forcing Zoners to pick a side by attacking Zoners will only result in having a couple heavy mortars shoved up the offending ship's tailpipe.
Although it is annoying that everyone is trying to force Zoners to go OORP by picking a side, I find it kind of entertaining when someone whines about the Juggernauts after getting annihilated by those same Juggernauts for violating Zoner neutrality.
Although it must be a pain in the neck for the Zoner traders, it can be quite fun to fight for neutrality.
Freedom, after all, isn't free.
And yes, I believe that many (but not all) Corsairs are out of control.
Discovery Zoners are so screwed up, in so many ways, some that are the players fault, and some that aren't, that the Discovery Zoners don't really match up with the Vanilla "Neutral" Zoners.
Quote:As unemployment rocketed towards 30 percent in Hamburg, a radicalized version of the union reformed -- more of a revolutionary cell than anything. The presence of Freeport 2 in Bering proved alluring to the nascent Unioner movement of Rheinland during the unsettled times. Following the popular uprising of 702, the station’s population exploded. In 720 the Zoners laid down the ultimatum: Take your criminal activities somewhere else. They would sell basic supplies to the rebels, but no more. So the Unioners carved their Pacifica base out of an asteroid in the Tanner
IDS 131478
Quote:We left Hamburg for this system after we reformed into the Unioners, but too many of us flooded onto this Freeport. It was an obvious target for the Rheinland Military, so the Zoners eventually asked us to leave. We put our skills to use and carved a hidden base out of an asteroid in the Tanner Asteroid Field.
Some points about the unioners getting kicked off the base, because of house pressures.
IDS 065782
Quote:Freeport 1 was founded by a group of Zoners over sixty years ago. It was the first station of its kind to be declared open to all, and it still provides a place for commerce and Food sales to everyone, regardless of legal status
That's where I assume the Zoners being less than100 years old comes from...freeport one was apparently not built more than 78 (18 from vanilla) years ago...and we'll assume a small number of years, rather than, say, 200 years more than 60 years ago...Pehaps Freeport 2, while settled by squatters in 650, wasn't a 'zoner' base? The Zoners themselves originating with Freeport 1?
Are freeports necessary for the Zoners to be Zoners?
IDS 065806
Quote:The Bounty Hunters Guild has taken advantage of several Freeports in the Edge Worlds to attack the Corsairs’ home system. So far they’ve been more of nuisance than a real threat, but the presence of Zoner-controlled bases so close to Omicron Gamma has provoked intense debate among the Elders of Crete regarding the future of nearby Independent bases.
Corsair's interest in taking Freeport 9 (And perhaps 5 and 11)
IDS 131473
Quote:It's a good thing the Zoners let us land on their bases. The criminals don't like it, but fair is fair. If the Zoners didn't allow us to land, IC and the Liberty Navy would shut this Freeport down in a second, and the Zoners know that.
Zoners caving to someone's demands, over the demands of a criminal group. Sorry, I've no idea who, just the IDS number of the rumor.
If you wanna dig up such infocards, Google FLDev, DL it, and begin. Brilliant program.
I was recently involved in a discussion about Zoners, over a snifter of brandy and, when not quoting proust, posited my usual position on these matters.
There's only one ideal Freeport in Freelancer. That's number 14.
Some of you are scratching your heads I see.
I'll go on.
It's in the Yukon system. Sometimes people trade with it. There are some goods you can move from it. It doesn't provide a staging ground for unfriendlies on anyone's doorstep. It doesn't provide any specific services to anyone's mortal enemies. It doesn't step on anyone's toes.
It's just a base out in the middle of nowhere. If you wanted to go there you would probably be going out of your way.
Then you have Gran Canaria. Which is sat on the border of Bretonia pouring the Corsairs they invited in up the arse of the Mollies and BAF alike.
Then you have Freeport 5, where Hessians gather prior to launching raids on Gamma.
Then you have Freeport 10, where the CR might pause for a moment prior to launching a raid on Alpha.
Theeeen you have Freeport 2, where those gosh darn slavers might vanish to whilst being chased by the RM.
The list goes on and on.
Most all of the Freeports, charming locations where you can hear a song and dance about a lady with an apple, can be stronger sources of frustration than benefit.
You guys are the dugout just beyond my front lawn where the kids who put bags of burning poop on my lawn hang out. Your dugout might not be on my property, you might cry that it's a dugout open for all, but one day I'm going to find one bag of poop too many on my lawn and I'm gonna wonder if maybe your dugout wouldn't look better if it was on fire.
So I walk across the street.
Have a word with you.
Ask if maybe you could think about telling those kids to maybe, I dunno, frek off.
At which point you, diplomatically, in shrill voice which sounds like the gentle lullaby of the asteroid field scream NEUTRAL WHAT YOU WANT I DONT PICK SIDES I AM NEUTRAL GO AWAY WHO ARE YOU TO TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH MY DUGOUT YOU NEED MY DUGOUT PIE OR SOMETHING OR YOU WILL DIE MAYBE.
At which point I quickly step away, put up my hands, smile and wonder where my mortar shells are.
The Zoners are handicapped by their freeports. Their role is to not really be there.
Problem is they are there. Which means that sometimes they may be held accountable for having squatted their infrastructure in key locations around Sirius. Which sometimes brings you the evil eye of your larger neighbors.
So.
I guess the guy who owns the dugout can continue to scream shrilly until I figure out how to build my trebuchet and feche la vache. Or he can consider that the larger regional powers > smaller powers.
Sometimes you're gonna get pirated by people who don't give a toss about your goods and services.
Sometimes you're gonna get a Corsair who doesn't care about your freeport. Man it's nice if you guys are hauling food. But today you're hauling human organs and he's heard an ugly rumor about your feeding the Outcasts too. Damn if that doesn't make him anxious.
So. To sum it up.
You guys are screwed up by a game that's moved around you and put you in a bad position.
Sirius isn't that big. You guys aren't on the fringes. You're in everyone else's living room and you're letting in lousy neighbors.
Sometimes you may get pushed around by your bigger neighbors.
Smile, say sure, cross your fingers and issue bounties.
Don't bring it to the forums bemoaning that your planet, bases and loose alliances are causing some folk to give you the stinkeye.
Uhm, I may be wrong on this, but it seems that most (if not all) the points made which shows Zoners giving in to the demands of another authority ends up benefiting Zoners someway in the end, which begs the question: "Are we...err Zoners giving in because the other powers says so or is it done because it would be ultimately beneficial for our survival?" In which case we survive and preserve our neutrality and the decisions were made in consideration of the Zoner's needs not as a caveat to the imposing powers.
...dunno, seemed relevant in any case.
What is love of one's country; is it hate of one's uncountry? Then it's not a good thing.
~The Left Hand of Darkness by U.K. Le Guin
' Wrote:Corsairs, the extreme aggression of some Corsair players against any Zoner they encounter would eventually cause Crete to be starved. There are a few Corsair players that understand , most don't. As it cannot be effected in game why should they care? Some Corsair players disregard the benefits of being able to use a Freeport brings simply because they want to fight. A Freeport is the only place a Corsair could meet with a Outcast and not fight, or meet with an Outcast turncoat. All of this is disregarded because there are no inRP consequences.
As much you want to be this way, there isin't.
Most of the food comes from Kusari. Of course Zoners contributes a bit too, but not a majority of it anylonger. It was before the artifact smuggle. Then Corsairs bought food from them from the profit of stolen goods. Basicly it would be a loss, but not something inpossible to deal with.
Corsairs actually are only waiting to take over the freeports, or have a chance to nuke them. (Not only my opinion. Laowai states this too) But are afraid of juggernauts and still not complete sure about it.
' Wrote:Most of the food comes from Kusari. Of course Zoners contributes a bit too, but not a majority of it anylonger. It was before the artifact smuggle. Then Corsairs bought food from them from the profit of stolen goods. Basicly it would be a loss, but not something inpossible to deal with.
Well, we're discussing freelancer canon. Not the blue moon convoy event to promote the whole drive to ally Kusari and the Corsairs.
If we're going to assume that there are convoys moving in the numbers to feed a world from Kusari we'd have to scratch our heads about the GMG, Bounty Hunters, Dragons and so on and so forth. Kinda a fickle supply line.