' Wrote:the key question regarding the corsair rp is still open: where are corsair weaknesses, and when are they being rped? or are the corsairs supposed to have no weaknesses?
The Corsairs weakness is still the same as it has always been. The Corsairs cannot on their own, feed their entire population. They are dependent on importing food. The only change in the Corsair rp on this matter is that instead of being completely dependent on the Zoners for food, they have found other groups willing to ship them food as well.
Corsairs...still dependent on others to feed themselves, only the food is coming from people beside the Zoners. If you think that is completely removing a factions weakness, I think you are not really looking at it with an objective view.
' Wrote:for all the sabre rattling the corsairs have done (me too), the sairs do have more to lose here.
very true, and if you allow - an excellent conclusion.
for a real universe: with every day the overmighty corsair empire cannot get rid of some "civilian weaklins" (by corsair perception) they should suffer great losses of support among their own people. sure, it could be played away on expense of realistic rp, but it would certainly happen in a real universe, because the little the corsair empire would gain (they are already free to fly through theta as the wish, while the zoners never treated corsairs worse than other groups), will be very expensive to achieve.
' Wrote:outcome 1. the sairs win, take over fp9.
this then moves the battlefront with the outcasts that much closer. sairs then have to defend a larger empire, and this opens up the back door to the hessians and mollies from the 'west' and opens up a new battlefront with the gmg via sig 17. Pyrrhic victory indeed.
i doubt that a real universe would grant the corsair empire a courtesy like watching in awe how the empire is entangling itself in a useless war. if the empire is focusing on a new enemy, actually all other enemies would take that chance gladly to enforce their pressing on the empire. also, the corsairs would lose the last non-hostile group in their direct neighbourhodd.
honestly, no real corsair would ever dare this - sorry - stupid step
he would know that the moment he is attacking the last somehow friendly neighbour he won't get out of trouble anymore.
also, since the zoners do not have enemies it is very likely that the corsairs could gain a new ally against their arc enemies
if this conflict would be simulated properly the corsair empire should actually fall apart because of massive pressure from the interiour
I think what Lou may be getting at, though I can't be 100% positive, is what actual weaknesses exist at the time being. If a weakness you have is ameliorated it is no longer a weakness.
Though having said that I'm not going to go into this discussion again. Not only because it's been discussed a plenty but also because it doesn't get anyone anywhere.
' Wrote:I think what Lou may be getting at, though I can't be 100% positive, is what actual weaknesses exist at the time being. If a weakness you have is ameliorated it is no longer a weakness.
Though having said that I'm not going to go into this discussion again. Not only because it's been discussed a plenty but also because it doesn't get anyone anywhere.
I don't understand why the weakness is any different than before.
Before: Corsairs need to import food to supply all their people.
Now: Corsairs need to import food to supply all their people.
What is different now is how that impacts the Zoners, not the weakness itself.
' Wrote:The Corsairs weakness is still the same as it has always been. The Corsairs cannot on their own, feed their entire population. They are dependent on importing food. The only change in the Corsair rp on this matter is that instead of being completely dependent on the Zoners for food, they have found other groups willing to ship them food as well.
Corsairs...still dependent on others to feed themselves, only the food is coming from people beside the Zoners. If you think that is completely removing a factions weakness, I think you are not really looking at it with an objective view.
again only for a real universe:
food needs to reach crete, and all paths are troublesome except for the highway from kusari through the sigmas to theta. even if fp9 would fall after a while real zoners wouldn't hesitate to pay nice fees for every destroyed food convoy. the corsair empire would have to take a great risk. what will end earlier, the attack on fp, or our food reserves? corsair leader might have something to eat, but very soon the support among their people would drop frightingly. now add a bit of propaganda from the scra broadcasted, and the corsair empire would have a serious rebellion.
the current situation in-game does not, and perhaps cannot, reflect a real scenario, granted, but I'd expect the corsair rp to take this very real mechanism into account and to apply accordingly.
' Wrote:again only for a real universe:
food needs to reach crete, and all paths are troublesome except for the highway from kusari through the sigmas to theta. even if fp9 would fall after a while real zoners wouldn't hesitate to pay nice fees for every destroyed food convoy. the corsair empire would have to take a great risk. what will end earlier, the attack on fp, or our food reserves? corsair leader might have something to eat, but very soon the support among their people would drop frightingly. now add a bit of propaganda from the scra broadcasted, and the corsair empire would have a serious rebellion.
the current situation in-game does not, and perhaps cannot, reflect a real scenario, granted, but I'd expect the corsair rp to take this very real mechanism into account and to apply accordingly.
So your point is no longer that the Corsairs don't have a weakness, but instead that they don't rp the consequences enough?
Also I will remind you there was a Zoner bounty on food transports to Crete. How many times was it claimed?
Edit: You know what, never mind, this thread is not about each side telling each other what they think they are doing wrong, it was to propose a way to play it out without forcing all sorts of assorted factions from having their rp mucked up for game mechanics reasons. I think we have pretty much gotten away from the idea of solutions, and it doesn't seem like it's going to get back to that, as the OP would a mod or admin please lock the thread.
' Wrote:So your point is no longer that the Corsairs don't have a weakness, but instead that they don't rp the consequences enough?
Also I will remind you there was a Zoner bounty on food transports to Crete. How many times was it claimed?
you're applying the implication reversely, thus in the wrong direction
you cannot determine realistic consquences by using player activities or interests
if you want to rp it properly you have to ask yourself what would happen in a real universe, filter out what you can play, and then apply it
' Wrote:You know what, never mind, this thread is not about each side telling each other what they think they are doing wrong, it was to propose a way to play it out without forcing all sorts of assorted factions from having their rp mucked up for game mechanics reasons. I think we have pretty much gotten away from the idea of solutions, and it doesn't seem like it's going to get back to that, as the OP would a mod or admin please lock the thread.
In order to find solutions made errors have to be examined. otherwise the same errors will be made again and again.
it is crucial to find out what realistic RP would be. okay, not for all games, but reality is something all players know. it doesn't have to be learned. applying real mechnismis for rp is certainly too cumbersome, so everybody is referting to abstractions again. it's okay, but if the rp leaves the scope of what everybody or a majority can approve as realistic scenario, an error has happend.
the current setting for the corsairs is:
they have vast fleets
they are excellent shipwrights
they are flawlessly organized, although they are often uncivilized (first contradiction? judge it yourself)
and they have enough food because even house corpirations are supplying food to them
eh, sorry, but the error starts exactly here, because with this setting there's absolutely no diplomatic pressure any zoner could apply
==> no place for zoners, because people (zoners) who flee colonial oppression wouldn't settle near an empire which is worse than the colonies they're originating from
<irony>it must be a flaw of the original devs to place a FREEPORT beside gamma</irony>