Battleship Missiles.

[Knjaz]

Yeah, I did hear that you made em "better" in terms of targeting, but what do we really have now?

DpE - Damage per Energy ratio.

BS missiles have 0.05 Refire Rate. Means, 1 missile each 20 seconds.
BS missiles take a heavy slot. That means, by installing one missile, you get a weapon, that deals 0.11 DpE damage (Mortar is 0.23), has a 1 in 20 seconds refire rate, and reduces amount of available heavy slots from 25% to 100%, depending on a capital vessel. And, if we take into account ,that cerberus now have 0.40 DpE compared to 0.28 DpE on primaries (0.26-27 DpE on faction primaries), thats VERY bad for your firepower.

Don't you think that's a bit too much for a weapon of such "effeciency" ? Allowing missiles to hit BS shields isn't that important, since they can be shot down relatively easily and they have too low DpE to be effective even when fighting light caps with heavy ones. Giving them better tracking (if it's true, didn't notice that yet...) is absolutely compensated by the huge sacrifice you make when installing at least one missile on your Heavy slots.


So, once again, whats the point? With turret splitting they already became more expensive in terms what you lose when installing 1 or 2 of them, even if you'd keep the old stats.

P.S. I'm not quite sure if old stats are balanced for missiles now either. you'll need to use from 50% to 200% of your heavy slots (with OLD missile stats) to allow em to actually drain your powercore, and therefore don't "waste" energy you would regenerate if you weren't full already, but I can understand that they were never intended to be used that way.

[Govedo13]

You have point here for sure- I would add the same for Battle Razors- I would like to mount them like Pulses on the main slots too not only on the heavy ones. I would agree if the missiles just do more dmg and take more energy to be shot and you can shot them with worst refire-rate. They should be heavy torpedoes and they lack the DMG now for sure.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Jinx]

because:

there was a lot of complaining of snub pilots - who claimed to be shot down by sniping battleships who "spammed" the battlefield with missiles.

personally - i don t agree there, cause i consider a snub being shot down by a BB missile to be ... mostly unlucky ... or if it happens on a regular basis ... incompetent.

but it was taken into account. - the missile is - what a nasty person would call it - a "no skill weapon" - you fire it and forget it.

so to explain it the simple way : you trade efficiency and damage for skill.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Mao]

Well... the problem with the BS missiles was that the "Incoming missile" alert was disappearing when the missile was close to hit its target. I got killed like that 3 times. That should have been fixed, not the damage dealt by them.

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[Knjaz]

because:

there was a lot of complaining of snub pilots - who claimed to be shot down by sniping battleships who "spammed" the battlefield with missiles.

personally - i don t agree there, cause i consider a snub being shot down by a BB missile to be ... mostly unlucky ... or if it happens on a regular basis ... incompetent.

but it was taken into account. - the missile is - what a nasty person would call it - a "no skill weapon" - you fire it and forget it.

so to explain it the simple way : you trade efficiency and damage for skill.

So, basically it's due to snub pilots?! Would never think about that if you wouldn't tell that...

I'm a cap-heavy user (well, actually I never fly snubs) and I've seen many fights with those missiles being used. I never noticed them being effective against fighter craft. Especially in team fights I can confidently say that I've seen around no less teamkills with them then actual kills (when talking about snubcraft in teamfights, of course). I wonder what those fighter pilots will say about solaris now. Or about capital ship with 3-4 missiles, since RR can be countered by the amount of heavy slots you waste for them. If you really really want this. Yes, your anti-cap capabilities will be significantly weakened, but will it matter for those fighter pilots? And why then no change was implemented for cruiser missiles? I honestly don't get it.

You do not make missiles less threatening to fighters by just decreasing their refire rate. They still have absolutely same probability to hit. All what you do, is that you make them less usefull for what they're supposed to be used.

Here's my suggestion - if you've decreased RR to make em less spammable, and you absolutely can't return it back, increase their damage. (and, proportionally, energy use). That won't affect fighters at all, no difference between 180k and 250-360k damage for a snub-craft.
Or return back RR (or even increase it to, say, 0.12), but decrease turning rate, but that one will require extensive testing on a full loaded server.

Also, missile do not blow up each other now, afaik. So they're even less useful against fighters.

[Knjaz]

P.S. Such things as, say, cruiser shield regen rate should be definitely taken into account. Back then, with one missile you were dealing 59k damage to a cruiser per salvo. (90k - 3,1regenx10 seconds), now you're dealing 30k effective damage per salvo if you have 1 missile (you can have more, of course, but for much greater sacrifice then in 85). You need, therefore, 7 salvos to take cruiser shield down.


(seconds from first missile launch) shield- damage + bonus from regen/ = resulting shield,
(0 sec, first "salvo") 250-90+62 = 222
(20 sec) 222-90+62 = 184
(40 sec) 184-90+62 = 156
(60 sec) 156-90+62 = 128
(80 sec) 128-90+62 = 98
(100 sec) 98-90+62 = 70
(120 sec) 80-90 = shield down


2 minutes to kill Cruiser shield with 1 mounted missile that already ate from 25% to 100% of your heavy slots, if all missiles hit.

And then there's cruiser shield regeneration time (dunno how it's called, time when shield goes up after reaching 0) that I did not take into calculation, because I just don't know how many seconds does it take.

[AshHill07]

I was just in a fight with an LR cruiser and a bunch of bombers.
I relied on my missile launcher to put the cruiser off while my other guns delt with the bombers but the thing was useless.

Yes it did hit most times, yes it did a fair amount of damage (Halfed his shields) but by the time the thing was ready to fire again his shields were back to full.

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\\ CDR David Roberts \\ CAPT Steven Eversman \\ VADM Ash Hill // RDML Chris Murray // CDR Mick Connors //
\\ SFC| Patrol-7 \\ SFC| LNS-California \\ SFC| LNT-Century // SFC| LNS-San.Francisco // SFC| Patrol-5 //

[AeternusDoleo]

P.S. Such things as, say, cruiser shield regen rate should be definitely taken into account. Back then, with one missile you were dealing 59k damage to a cruiser per salvo. (90k - 3,1regenx10 seconds), now you're dealing 30k effective damage per salvo if you have 1 missile (you can have more, of course, but for much greater sacrifice then in 85). You need, therefore, 7 salvos to take cruiser shield down.
(seconds from first missile launch) shield- damage + bonus from regen/ = resulting shield,
(0 sec, first "salvo") 250-90+62 = 222
(20 sec) 222-90+62 = 184
(40 sec) 184-90+62 = 156
(60 sec) 156-90+62 = 128
(80 sec) 128-90+62 = 98
(100 sec) 98-90+62 = 70
(120 sec) 80-90 = shield down
2 minutes to kill Cruiser shield with 1 mounted missile that already ate from 25% to 100% of your heavy slots, if all missiles hit.

And then there's cruiser shield regeneration time (dunno how it's called, time when shield goes up after reaching 0) that I did not take into calculation, because I just don't know how many seconds does it take.

Are you taking into account that the cruiser barely has an ability to fend off these missiles (heavy CMs are about the only way) and that they outrange almost all of the cruiser weapons, and are guided? And what's this tenacity about BS vs something one on one battles? Battleships are not meant to operate alone . The BS missile is a weapon to project heavy damage onto gunboats and bigger, from extreme range. It is indeed a fire and forget weapon, that has, at long range, a significantly higher chance to hit something cruiser sized.

That said, a damage/energyconsumption increase is something that can be considered.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Korny]

I was just in a fight with an LR cruiser and a bunch of bombers.
I relied on my missile launcher to put the cruiser off while my other guns delt with the bombers but the thing was useless.

Yes it did hit most times, yes it did a fair amount of damage (Halfed his shields) but by the time the thing was ready to fire again his shields were back to full.

That cruiser was me. Anyway, I must say there was times when I was more afraid of BS missiles. They're still effective, especially for holding off smaller caps, but well...they didn't really keep me from anything.

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[Warhalk]

BS missiles are a good follow up i find to my pair of mortars. Fire Missile, wait a few secs, and 1-2 fire mortars. Mortars will drop the shields just before missile hits. Vert effective, and remember Missiles blow crap off of ships with no shields. Like gun mounts and CMs.