I would like to comment on the fact that I have only ever seen the GC fly two ships:
The Red Catamaran
The Blood Dragon Gunboat
I think your roleplay is very good. Everytime I exchange words with one of the GC's ladies, I enjoy it thoroughly. I am, however, very disappointed that every one of the GC flies a Red Catamaran or a Gunboat at all times. Not once have I met a GC in even a Blood Dragon Fighter, just Red Cats, even the one I saw going on diplomatic leave to Bretonia. Therefore, I'd like to ask for the GC to fly something else sometimes, as the Catamaran is very unbalanced, seeing as how it can out-turn fighters, and facing it everytime you face your most hated enemy is less than fun, for both sides...
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
You really don't see that many [GC] GBs as you think. You just notice more when they are there, and don't remember the fights as often when there isn't a cap. I'm more likely to remember a vs Cap battle than a vs VHF/B battle. Its just normal. Anyway, GC has a total of 2 gunboats. Any others you see are indies. I don't think they have any cruisers.
And the Red Cats. Well thats more by necessity than choice to be honest. Being in Kusari, in Hokkaido in fact, is right smack in the middle of the niobium-diamond route. As such, when we pirate traders, there are numerous BHG BCs and BSs that come for us. So there is a higher demand on bombers than there are fighters, as we fought, on average, 80% capships, 20% fighters. Possibly even lower fighter percentage than that.
And the Red Cat cannot outturn a fighter. I've fought both the Kusari Cat and the Red Cat, and can outturn both in a Stinger and a BD HF. Chimaera is better in agility than a stinger, and just slightly less in agility than BD HF (Due to hull points being ~3,000 points higher), so it can outturn a Red Cat as well. If our enemy brought in all Chims, and we brought in Red Cats, we would stand a good chance at losing. It is simply dependent on whether out opponents have trained thoroughly in anti-bomber fighting. If people want GC to use less bombers, than bring in more fighters.. But if you keep using capships, GC are going to keep using bombers to counter them.
I try my best to find out the ship my opponents are flying before getting in combat with them, so that I may bring a ship more appropriate to the fight. I don't want to bring in a Red Cat vs a bunch of Chims. I'd rather bring my HF, for RP and PvP reasons both. This morning was an example. A KNF was fighting a GC bomber. Another GC went to assist in her bombers. I found out halfway to the fight that the target was a Chimaera, turned around, flew back 15km just to switch out to an HF. I wasted 2 minutes, in which time the GC bomber may have died, so I could bring an appropriate ship. I ended up doing most of the hull damage the Chim had recieved before getting SNd by the bomber, (By the bomber who had no weapons except SN.. I inferno, she SNd, I blinked.. Lolwhat? O.o) simply because I was able to turn more effectively. I had the trouble of having to conserve energy to fire, but when I did fire I did so much more accurately than the other GC bomber present.
(BTW, I am not in the GC player faction. I am speaking here in general for the GC population, myself being an indie GC as my Kiretsu characters.)
I would just like to say first, that I have fought you several times, and I have always thought the fight was fair. Of all the GC, I do think I remember seeing your HF once. Otherwise, all I have seen is Red Cats and Gunboats. It wasn't until these past two months, even, that I have seen Gunboats, and that was only on three occasions. Otherwise, I have only ever seen Red Cats.
I wasn't asking for a statistical analysis, I was more of asking for a change in policy. It's hard to deny that the Cats have an abnormally high turning rate for a bomber and just because you're in the middle of the diamond-niobium route doesn't mean that you have to fly bombers all day everyday. It is possible, and maybe more fun, to pirate in Fighters, especially when in groups. It might take a little longer than Syncing SN's and blasting someone with four shots, but it is an opportunity that all other Pirate Factions take, and even terrorist factions such as the Phantoms and the SCRA. The KNF doesn't even fly Caps very often anymore. I have only seen a Destroyer once, and a Gunboat maybe four times out of the KNF, and the rest of it has been Catamarans and Chimeras, and I have not seen a single cap present in the past three months. Also, I do not have a capship in Kusari. I have only had a personal capship once, and I got rid of it the moment the AFA was founded. I am requesting this because I believe that it is bad RP on the GC's part, and I believe that they should change it.
Everyone likes to act according to the situation at hand. That's not quite the point. I was asking the official player faction to please fly something different. I might not like the rumors of a gigantic ego on your part, or how you might portray yourself, Dab, but I have found you to be a fair opponent in all my time in Kusari. To the official GC player faction, though, I would like to request that you fly something other than the Red Catamaran and the Blood Dragon Gunboat.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
i gotto admit, i have had basicly no ingame experience with the [GC] so call me totally biased, as all my information is second hand. - however, by principle, i agree with chopper that faction equipment should be used over everything at reasonable terms.
the argument "but we get wasted otherwise" does not score at all, cause such an argument supports a "i get the best i can" attitude, which especially the official factions should not follow as a "good" RP example.
so my suggestion is to fly eagles of course and only fly red cats untill they have a valid alternative. - once they have, i d love to see them switch to the primary choice of the faction in RP terms. about weaponry.. i gotto say i have not the slightest idea about GC weapons. - they do have their own guns, from what i know - and they are not bad. - when you get down to it.... one can also pirate with an eagle and gaias angels, which are worse when its against transports ( or one can pirate "just as good as with codes or other borrowed equipment" )
if it is true that the GC mostly uses red cats and BDs... that IS a problem. its as bad as the LSF / Navy using buckshots, BDs using krakens, bounty hunters buying liberty battlecruisers, zoners flying corsair dreadnaughts. it does not fit the expected archetype.
however - i should be the last one to say that, as i am flying a corsair bomber with coladas as Clover ( its being switched next version.... but right now, it feels totally "wrong", too ) and i have asked officially for it, too. - ( still feels stupid ) - so when i write that, i gotto blame myself first. - but yea... the "better" alternative is to stick to what is expected from one to do. - a gaian should fly an eagle with gaians angels. a GC should fly an eagle with suncannons or whatever their weapons are. - very few members could maybe benefit from a weaponsdeal and use other guns... and even fewer could possibly fly another ship.
again all that is only based on what i read here as i had no experience with the GC ingame ever yet. ( that is partly, cause the profitable trades out of kusari are declared as contraband [ engine parts etc. ] and the diamond/niobium route, even if one uses the official route through frankfurt puts one into the same mold as the common "ooRP" player - so kusari is insignificant from my point of view )
"Blood Dragon Gunboat" it actually is the BD HF, it's a glitch with the list.
When they fly the proper GB it says: "Dragon GB"
But as most people know I have exactly the same thoughts. 95% of the time GCs fly Dragon bombers. 5% Blood Dragon fighters.
I will keep quoting Dab's explanation "Eagle is too bad against Chimaera"
PVP over RP?
' Wrote:If our enemy brought in all Chims, and we brought in Red Cats, we would stand a good chance at losing. It is simply dependent on whether out opponents have trained thoroughly in anti-bomber fighting.
Let me turn this around a bit... "you would stand a good chance at losing"... but you will have a much better chance than with 4 fighters.
As someone else put it "The Catamaran is the best non-vanilla fighter"
Quote:This morning was an example. A KNF was fighting a GC bomber. Another GC went to assist in her bombers. I found out halfway to the fight that the target was a Chimaera, turned around, flew back 15km just to switch out to an HF. I wasted 2 minutes, in which time the GC bomber may have died, so I could bring an appropriate ship.
This is indeed a funny example. 1 fighter was fighting alone vs 2 bombers who take forever to kill no matter what guns he uses while he can be insta killed any second of the fight.
Yet you wanted to be "fair" so you took a much faster fighter so that you have much better chance of hitting him/keeping shields down, so that bombers can SN or spam nukes. Good one ;)
Even better was you pointing in the other thread that "KNF does never fly bombers", well we do not fly them 95% of the time that's true.. partly because it feels "dirty" against your opponents.
Quote:Chimaera is better in agility than a stinger, and just slightly less in agility than BD HF (Due to hull points being ~3,000 points higher),
I think I need to correct you with raw numbers from .ini files used by freelancer.
First 3 are steering/angular ratios (the higher the faster it turns), last 3 are rotation inertia (lower is better) - shows how fast the ships reacts to strafing/dodging
Stinger 1,1750 1,1750 1,0638 8400 8400 8400
(yes it's slower but it's a tiny non-vanilla ship almost without a hitbox)
Note:
- the 3rd steering/angular for BD (1,5) is the 2nd highest for any VHF in game (only Sabre has more - 1.6) and only 3 VHFs have more than 1.37 in that number.
- the 3rd rotation inertia for BD is 3rd lowest of all VHFs
- the average of the 3 rotation inertias for BD is the lowest of all VHFs, it also has the smallest dispersion
(some other ships have 2 values really high and one extremely low, resulting in strange behavior)
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
I don't really know what I'm trying to say here, so bare with me.
The Eagle doesn't have..something. Character perhaps? It doesn't feel very much like a Kusari unlawful ship and, well, why should it? Its a 'generic' ship after all. Now don't immediately assume I'm some OORP nub, I know that Eagles and Suncannons would be most 'fitting' if we look at GC NPC's.
I guess the Xenos use Eagles... but they don't have any allies. It's not like the Blood Dragon its overpowered, whats the big deal about using it? If we look at Lane Hackers, they do what GC do now, they use an Ally's ship instead of using an Eagle, even though they don't have their own shipline. The only difference being that GC was developed using Eagle NPCs, Hackers had their ally's ships from the start. *huff*
If we look at where Ainu Depot is, distance-wise from Kyoto base, it's merely a jumphole away. Hell you could go and get a shiny Blood Dragon after asking very nicely and paying alot of credits (which brings me to the point that I bet the Dragons are getting a nice bit of cash from the purchases) and bring it back to Ainu in time for tea.
I don't want one because it's better, I bet the Eagle can dodge all day long from weapons fire, being as agile as it is. (Refer to Spear for proof <3) The Blood Dragon just helps with my roleplay, I guess. It feels dangerous and intimidating, which is what an unlawful pilot needs to go against the odds in battle.
<strike>I suppose I could just buy and and say 'I stole it'...</strike>
Actually, Lane Hackers are using Borderworld ships by Vanilla.
So, Dagger, Scimitar, Sabre, Falcata - all perfectly well in RP for them.
It's not 'allies' ship, since BW ships are not Outcast ships.
It is a ship line used by Hackers, Hessians, LWB, Bundies and some others.
Quote:As someone else put it "The Catamaran is the best non-vanilla fighter"
Yup, that was me, after that fight in tau-31.
I'd just like to state that I lost 2 bots only even though I had 4 people on my back most of the time.
Compared to viper, you have about the same size, 5 guns, 2 torps and more hull, while being as agile as viper, with slower turning rate.
Oh, and possibility to shoot all guns forever + mini/sn/whatever.
Quote:I guess the Xenos use Eagles... but they don't have any allies. It's not like the Blood Dragon its overpowered, whats the big deal about using it?
That is not the real problem. Real problem is that GC is a female BD faction right now.
You have nothing to distinct yourself from BD factions, and that isn't good.
And the 'Eagle isn't good enough' argument that Dab so much likes isn't good enough.
I fly an Eagle on my Hogosha and I find it to be uber, but you have to fly it in a certain way.
As McNeo said, Eagle is one of the ships that requires skill to be used properly.
Quote:If we look at where Ainu Depot is, distance-wise from Kyoto base, it's merely a jumphole away. Hell you could go and get a shiny Blood Dragon after asking very nicely and paying alot of credits (which brings me to the point that I bet the Dragons are getting a nice bit of cash from the purchases) and bring it back to Ainu in time for tea.
Someone said once that BD HF is like a Katana.
Not mass-produced, but produced for each pilot with certain care and dimensions.
That itself denies you the right to go with a bunch of credits and try to buy it.
Plus Blood Dragons are too proud to agree to making you ships for credits.
Otherwise you'd see GC NPC's flying Dragons around.
Quote:I don't want one because it's better, I bet the Eagle can dodge all day long from weapons fire, being as agile as it is.
It can't, but it can deliver more damage before it dies then any other ship, because it can stay on target's tail.
My point being, Kusari is becoming polarized if you continue this way.
Imagine now FA starting to fly lawful Catamarans and Chimaeras around.
Hogosha too.
Also, there is one GC flying an eagle with GC weapons that is probably more dangerous then any GC in BD HF.
Too bad she's still in Bretonia.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.
' Wrote:It's not like the Blood Dragon its overpowered, whats the big deal about using it?
1. BD actually is overpowered, except if you mount only Daitos on it, then it's just very good.
Quote:If we look at Lane Hackers, they do what GC do now, they use an Ally's ship instead of using an Eagle, even though they don't have their own shipline. The only difference being that GC was developed using Eagle NPCs, Hackers had their ally's ships from the start. *huff*
2. The Borderworld shipline is how the name says made in Borderworlds... (so not edge worlds (omicrons)) and the Lane Hackers are actually doing part of the development/manufacturing.
Quote:If we look at where Ainu Depot is, distance-wise from Kyoto base, it's merely a jumphole away. Hell you could go and get a shiny Blood Dragon after asking very nicely and paying alot of credits (which brings me to the point that I bet the Dragons are getting a nice bit of cash from the purchases) and bring it back to Ainu in time for tea.
3. The infocard : "Blood Dragons keep the design of the ship even from their allies, so it's only sold on Kyoto"
For me this means that they don't want to give it to the GCs (who are obviously those allies the infocard mentions). Since the infocard says this they won't be selling it to you "for a lot of credits".
No other ship in whole sirius has a clearer infocard in this aspect.
-------
And on top of that we can get the "faction feeling".
When I meet 4 GCs and 3 are in BD bombers, 1 in BD fighter... and they have krakens/codes/infernos mounted.... what faction are they?
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:It's not 'allies' ship, since BW ships are not Outcast ships.
This makes sense; although this:
' Wrote:2. ...and the Lane Hackers are actually doing part of the development/manufacturing.
..does not. I'll stand corrected if someone can show me where it says that.
Now this I don't agree with:
' Wrote:3. The infocard : "Blood Dragons keep the design of the ship even from their allies, so it's only sold on Kyoto"
For me this means that they don't want to give it to the GCs (who are obviously those allies the infocard mentions). Since the infocard says this they won't be selling it to you "for a lot of credits".
To me it looks like they want to be the sole producer of the Blood Dragon. It doesn't say 'They do not even sell/produce the design for their allies'.
Along the same lines...
' Wrote:Someone said once that BD HF is like a Katana.
Not mass-produced, but produced for each pilot with certain care and dimensions.
That itself denies you the right to go with a bunch of credits and try to buy it.
Plus Blood Dragons are too proud to agree to making you ships for credits.
I'm not really convinced by 'someone' saying something. So it doesn't deny me buying it, unless an infocard or whatever actually says not to, I'll agree to that. Same goes for the pride comment.
Do not misunderstand me, I'm taking on board what you're saying, I just need some proof or something about some comments I've highlighted.
Quote:..does not. I'll stand corrected if someone can show me where it says that.
Sabre is sold in Vespucci as well as it's sold on Outcast bases.
Vespucci = HF guard system with hacker bases inside.
Scimitar is also sold there.
Quote:I'm not really convinced by 'someone' saying something. So it doesn't deny me buying it, unless an infocard or whatever actually says not to, I'll agree to that. Same goes for the pride comment.
Well if you want it that way, nothing can deny you buying it.
You can even fly a Liberty dread for all I care, for RP reasons.
I'v had this discussion more then once, and I know there is no way to convince you that it is bad, so I'll just stop trying and go on my way.
You do what you have to do.
Lucendez Wrote:
It is every Corsair's responsibility to die a beautiful death in defense of Crete, regardless of how OORP or how capwhoring the opposition is. Launch your fighter, joust the battlecruisers and die a beautiful death. Then, drink it down in the bar.