Rheinland Phantom LF vs Bergelmir Bomber

[Ursus]

I present to you, the Rheinland "Bergelmir" Bomber next to the Rheinland "Phantom" Light Fighter. Wow they are almost the same size! Hard to believe they are nearly the same size, when the Phantom has 6.8k hull and 8k power core, while the Bergelmir has 19.4k hull and 45.4k power core. That cant be right

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Are they the same size? They look very close to the same size. Ahh the wireframe shows the truth, the Light Fighter is actually longer and taller than the Bomber



Here are the measurements from nose-to-tail, wing-to-wing, and top-to-bottom

Phantom 13.7 long X 11 wide X 7 tall
Bergelmir 12 long X 13.6 wide X 5.8 tall

Rendered



The problem here is that both of them are wrong. The Phantom is begger than most other house LFs, and the Bergelmir is smaller than every other bomber I looked at.

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Lunaphase]

the problem here is the LF is HF sized. Make it a proper HF and the problem would go away, with a better replacement for LF modled later. (still can use tiger shark)

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[Govedo13]

Rheinland snub-line is vastly overpowered. You found nothing new but you managed to present it in really nice way. LF to HF cannot be made because the VHF act as HF. Wright should receive 1 gun more together with hull buff and handling nerf to make it proper VHF, so the LF could become HF and the bomber could become LF because it is the smallest of them all.
RM have ultra heavy bomber that could receive replacement to make it proper heavy bomber, and they should deal with it till they get new one on the same way that their enemies deal with their 2 OP VHF and Bomber in the last 2-3 years.
But none would do it because if the RM stuff becomes normal then the Hessians could not use the RM have OP ships argument to keep their ships on that level.
The funniest part is that the Bergl have more core/bots/bats/guns then any light bomber while being half the size, balance cannot say that it is model fault because they could simple make it light bomber without changing its handling to compensate for the size.
You showed very well how bad the Balance team is with proper images, good work.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Oldum]

the problem here is the LF is HF sized. Make it a proper HF and the problem would go away, with a better replacement for LF modled later. (still can use tiger shark)

I just love the way you're thinking !:)

Also, the Bergelmir is fine as it is, however the Phantom as stated above is way to big and heavy to be a LF. RFP was shouting about that for months, but everyone told us to be quiet and be happy. On the other hand, the Wraith might be a bit light to be a VHF, but the fact that it only has 5 guns is suppose to compensate the slightly better agility.

But back to the Bergelmir. Imo, the reason it's like this is cause the Fafnir is the biggest bomber available in game, even compared to other heavy bombers, not to mention it's sized like a smaller gunship. Therefore it would be useless to turn it into a smaller normal bomber. So the two bombers compensate each other fine. However if the Berg does get a bit bigger, that wouldn't cause too big problems I think.

As for the Phantom, turning it into a HF would not need much work, just stick a gun and maybe a turret on it, extend it's armor and core a bit and there we go. Agility and size is already good for a HF. As for a replacement of that, a new model would be wise, as the Tiger Shark is marked as a civilian LF and is already getting a nerfed powercore for both RFP and RM ...

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[Prysin]

@govedo
-snip-

@Ursus
Snubnose is to my knowledge the only ship that has been continuously nerfed since 4.84 (including multiple times during "sub" releases).
It is small, sluggish, and has heavy firepower. However it is too small and too fast, with too much firepower, to make the Fafnir useful.

BUT, there is a big "but" here.
It is also the only efficient way for Rheinland to beat liberty caps, without using ganking as a "solution".

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DHC Discord

[Narcotic]

Indeed, the Phantom could be a bit smaller. It's even larger than the Hyena, if I remember right.

But the Bergelmir is good as it is. Its agility got already nerved that often...

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[Ursus]

Bergelmir is Liberator with wings on it... it should be the LF, and something the size of Wraith should be the bomber

ps--damn, I moved in front of Govedo's crosshairs

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Discovery 24/7 Negotiating Tactics:

[Govedo13]

The 3 above without Ursus:
A: You have no idea about bombers.
B: You love to fly OP ships.

Ursus can you make size comparison between Bergelmir and Corsair bomber?
Both share the same bomber features even with one gun more(core/b/bs/hull etc), I hope that the rest of no-brainers would understand it then.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Oldum]

Indeed, the Phantom could be a bit smaller. It's even larger than the Hyena, if I remember right.

But the Bergelmir is good as it is. Its agility got already nerved that often...

So far I didn't find a light fighter bigger then that flying brick.

Bergelmir is Liberator with wings on it... it should be the LF, and something the size of Wraith should be the bomber

ps--damn, I moved in front of Govedo's crosshairs

What's the point of changing everything's model ? Make the Berg a bit bigger if it hurts the eye of anyone and case closed.

The 3 above without Ursus:
A: You have no idea about bombers.
B: You love to fly OP ships.

Ursus can you make size comparison between Bergelmir and Corsair bomber?
Both share the same bomber features even with one gun more(core/b/bs/hull etc), I hope that the rest of no-brainers would understand it then.

No offense Gov, but could you show me a ship that you don't fly and is not OP in your view ? Also, until now, noone cared about the Bergelmir even a bit, even though as I said before, it could be a bit bigger without any trouble and that would end every problem.

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[Govedo13]

According to the devs the bad model of the bomber cannot be made bigger,still they have no explanation why it should be medium bomber with that size- it is the same story with Bottlenose in the GB class, you really need to try to hit the RM bomber with cruiser or GB to find out that it is harder than any other bomber while due to its medium core and good hull/bots and 5 guns it rapes you, repeat the same for the Wright.
If the model is so bad there is always easy solution- balance it as light bomber and it should not be OP- no need of model change, just a willing to do its job balance team. The package of 5 guns and all medium bomber features on that size is brutal.
I have both RM VHF and Bomber so I fly them as well, this does not change the fact that they are OP. From RM PoV I would be really happy if none cares about the OP ships so they continue to be OP.:lol:
If the RM people were so caring they could make new Bomber and LF instead of new Battleship and BC, but as it seems they are happy with their OP ships.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)