I was trying to make any sense out of your post however I fail to do so. There are a lot of matters that are either unclear or make no sense.
Let's start at diplomacy...
Why RM & RFP are put into same bag as... Nomads?
Why Zoners, main supplier of The Order are just neutral?
SCRA war is long over.
Keepers no longer exist, replaced by Slomon K'Hara
Daam K'Vosh are extinct/dissapeared before making any contact with humans as we know it... they are not even a faction.
Now your aims... why Order| would need your help with "repairs" of fleet, while it was entirely up to us to realisticaly role play smaller fleet since Toledo destruction?
Corsairs dumped us and this alliance never made sense, Order gained nearly nothing from it. It will never go up to friendly again.
With end of lolraids of LN on Minor situation with Liberty has stabilized, how do you intend to "improve relations" since Order| is already at it?
If you claim you are separate from Order, why are you using Order ID, IFF, ships, guns and claim to be allied with Blood Dragons? (you have not made contact with them to my knowledge at all)
"covered behind OHC" - we never covered any faction. "Single action army" makes no sense either. Order works as united group, Order| pilot have no more rights than indie, they are all equal. Only Overwatch (OHC) can do something to upkeep lore of The Order.
What "different things" were done by "Overwatches"? Not exactly sure why my admiral is suddenly popular as some kind of scape goat. As I interacted with you in Mu, it has to do something with loss of Toledo, pre-planned before I even was in charge event in which Order could have not done anything more than was done. More experienced Order commanders should have know INRP part of it.
Finally... What makes you different from any other already existing Order group out there? One guy I have spoken to had problems with keeping RP related matters from OORP information which really bugs me.
(11-07-2012, 11:26 PM)Omicron Wrote: Corsairs dumped us and this alliance never made sense, Order gained nearly nothing from it. It will never go up to friendly again.
Well the reason why things went downhill between Order and Corsairs was because a lot of players on both sides thought one-dimensionally in terms of "Order are good guys, Corsairs are bad guys".
When you think about it in a broader way, them being friendly to each other made a lot of sense, and them being hostile to each other makes very little sense.
They're both in desperate need of allies given the situation in the omicrons, they have 6 common enemies (Nomads, Wilde, BHG, Core, Outcasts, LN), they both relly on Zoners to get supplies (well, some of the Corsairs kinda ignoed that, but anyway...), neither of them feel obliged to follow house laws (although for separate reasons) or have any other reason to sell each other out to their enemies, they both need each others help against those common enemies, and also to sustain themselves (docking at bases, exchange of materiel), badly.
And from being hostile to each other they gain: nothing. Except for another, rather unescessary, enemy. They gain nothing from trying to pirate each other since none of them are strong in trading, and they have no motivation to try to conquer each other's crappy territories either. And in terms of "the needs justify the means" and moral dillemas, there is lots of interesting RP and depths of the human conditions to be explored in it, potentially.
Too bad so many people can't think any further than "Order good, Corsairs bad, they so they should be hostile" when those two things dont even have to be necessarily true. A real shame in my opinion.
(11-07-2012, 11:26 PM)Omicron Wrote: Order works as united group, Order| pilot have no more rights than indie, they are all equal. Only Overwatch (OHC) can do something to upkeep lore of The Order.
Well they don't have more rights officially, but a lot of Order| peeps sure don't act that way.
Actually, the destruction of Toledo and the disarray that it must have caused to the Order makes it very possible that many of the order ships that managed to flee and survived may have had to fend for themselves separated from the rest of hte fleet for a long time. And a lof of the captains will have lost faith in "High Command" after the military disaster. That makes it very plausible that splinter-groups that feel no obligation to follow the High Command may have formed.
Nomads & Wilde are enemies of nearly everyone, this does not mean anything.
BHG are enemy of Order and every single unlawful out there, does it means we should ally with every single pirate out there?
Outcasts - again, enemy of my enemy is not neccesarily my own friend.
LN are not hostile to Corsairs, I doubt those two ever should have met. Besides I am working on at least cease fire between Order & Liberty.
Corsairs are not friendly but they are not hostile either. All they have done is attacking our other allies (Zoners), pirating supply lines and worked negatively for Order's reputation. Now we have reverted it to original vanilia's friendlies, having some base to aid each other.
Order might or not care about house laws, depends what suits us best. Going suddenly hostile against Rheinland/Bretonia for no reason makes Order no profit. Giving Corsairs an battleship was failure, dictated by lack of models in days when "every faction should have full capline", not RP neccesity - alliance was written upon those two factions based on solely OORP reason to solve Corsairs lack of their own battleship at that time.
ORF are not acting as rogue element at all too... and who are they revolutionary against? I never could figure that out.
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: Nomads & Wilde are enemies of nearly everyone, this does not mean anything.
But none are more affected by them than Order and Corsairs, given the situation in the omicrons, except the zoners of freeport 11 in delta. It simply doesnt make sense that Order and Corsairs (and Zoners) shouldn't help each other there.
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: BHG are enemy of Order and every single unlawful out there, does it means we should ally with every single pirate out there?
I suggest you re-read your sentense because neither did I say that nor did it make any sense. Read more about the subject below.
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: Outcasts - again, enemy of my enemy is not neccesarily my own friend.
But sharing an enemy does bring you closer together, unless there is a reason for Order and Corsairs to dislike each other, which there isnt.
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: LN are not hostile to Corsairs, I doubt those two ever should have met. Besides I am working on at least cease fire between Order & Liberty.
Lol. Of COURSE they're hostile. Ever seen a Corsair in Bretonia say "oh you're a liberty ship, we won't pirate you"?
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: Corsairs are not friendly but they are not hostile either. All they have done is attacking our other allies (Zoners), pirating supply lines and worked negatively for Order's reputation.
Certain Corsairs attacking Zoners was oorp player hatred and bullying. In canon lore, the Corsairs use the zoners to get supplies that they couldn't get in other ways, just like the Outcasts do for FP10. That's how it was and still is in the mod.
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: Now we have reverted it to original vanilia's friendlies, having some base to aid each other.
This is what a lot of people (you just like the OP, so more comments below) don't understand. The Order was an undercover network that spread through any faction they could get agents into. The Order uses agents in every faction they can, not only Blood Dragons and Bundschu. They had agents with the Outcasts (Kress), the LSF (Orillion), the liberty rogues (its not clear whether the artifact smuggler Juni and Trent caught in the beginning was working for the Order or the Nomads, but the Rogues helped the Order in New York later in the game). The Order ships that blew up the Donau had a Rheinland accent, and called him a "Traitor"... so they were possibly RM or ex-RM pilots (like Orillion was then ex-LSF) who knew what was going on in the RM well enough to know that he is infected and what he was planning.
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: Order might or not care about house laws, depends what suits us best.
Just like any other faction that doesn't stick to laws. Point is Order has no obligation to not conspire with Corsairs (like they had no obligation to nto conspire with Blood Dragons, Bunschu, and Rogues), and Corsairs have no obligation to attack the Order (for example like the BHG do).
(11-08-2012, 12:02 AM)Omicron Wrote: Going suddenly hostile against Rheinland/Bretonia for no reason makes Order no profit.
They wouldnt have to. Nobody said they would have to attack all enemeis of the Corsairs. It's not like the RM and Bretonia are all over the Omicons. No Corsair in his right mind would ask the Order to help attack or pirate in Rheinland or Bretonia. And the enemies who really ARE attacking Corsairs in Crete and a threat to them, where an ally would be highly desirable, those are the Outcasts, the Nomads, and the BHG. Well... who would be the perfect ally to help fight those, hm?
(11-08-2012, 02:35 PM)Eonaros Wrote: RM and RFP are put in the same bag as Nomads,because first infected Nomad was Admiral Schultzky.As I remember,Rheinland survey team ( around 800 A.S ) discovered a planet full of artifacts and K'Vosh stuff.They were infected and they returned to Schultzky and infected him.Schultzky wanted to meet with liberty president,and The Order destroyed his cruiser.
Newark Station:Unindenitfyed ships,this is Newark station,you're entering restricted space,change course at once or we will open fire.
Order Pilots:Newark,do not dare to interfere,we're here to protect the president.Schultzky is a traitor !
Thats what happened and I put Rheinland lawful as hostile.
That's obsolete. The Rheinland government was purged of nomads when the infected individuals (now the wilde) became separated from the nomad link at the end of the game. The RM are now fighting the wilde. The discovery storyline takes place after the end of the game.
(11-08-2012, 02:35 PM)Eonaros Wrote: Your things that you've done ,are :Wrong capital vessel tactics at Toledo.
As an IRP reason, the poor tactics of the primary fleet are actually a very good reason to stop following them, especially after the Toledo disaster. The tactics that the official faction has been telling the indies to follow IRP (always fight the nomads on their terms, never on your own terms, and never kill the people who just tried to kill you or regularly come here to kill you) are an absolute abomination (and not canon RP either).
(11-08-2012, 02:35 PM)Eonaros Wrote: I'm replying to all these posts.I apologize if I mix OORP and RP Time to throw in my 2 cents, I hope this helps
1st.I never said that The Council is allied.We are friendly...
RM and RFP are put in the same bag as Nomads,because first infected Nomad was Admiral Schultzky.As I remember,Rheinland survey team ( around 800 A.S ) discovered a planet full of artifacts and K'Vosh stuff.They were infected and they returned to Schultzky and infected him.Schultzky wanted to mee[/color]t with liberty president,and The Order destroyed his cruiser. So you're lumping all the RFP/RM personnel in the same bag as Das Wilde? The Order itself is not friendly with them granted, but that is because it is allied to the Bundschuh and I *think* the Hessians
Newark Station:Unindenitfyed ships,this is Newark station,you're entering restricted space,change course at once or we will open fire.
Order Pilots:Newark,do not dare to interfere,we're here to protect the president.Schultzky is a traitor !
Thats what happened and I put Rheinland lawful as hostile.
Zoners are put into neutral,because I've never seen them engage Nomad 'Marduk'. The Zoners are important Allies of the Order, they gave us the Hathor. Furthermore they tend towards a defensive strategy, they won't go out of their way to purge the nomads like the Order does I believe, Omicron correct me if I'm wrong
If SCRA war is over,I'm gonna start it again. Erm why, the SCRA and Order have had since it, you do know that this would spill over to the rest of the Order right? What purpose would this serve IRP other than needlessly wasting Order/ORF resources, the purpose of the Order is to guard humanity from the nomad threat, not purge its own IMO
You're right about Keepers.
I've put Daam K'Vosh ,just in case.Its not important whether they're a faction or not.
I'm using Order IFF and ID since there aren't ORF ID's.Its no problem for me to abandon Mu,and use a Freelancer ID.But I will continoue to supress Nomad force and keep them away from houses and 'ORF' homesystem ( Its not important whitch system it is )
True,I didn't make eny contacts with Blood Dragons,even if I did,you don't need to know everything.There's something thats not your concern.
Omicron: Only Overwatch (OHC) can do something to upkeep lore of The Order.< I don't like that too.
Your things that you've done ,are :Wrong capital vessel tactics at Toledo.
I didn't find info that you've had plan B. Here's a suggestion (I don't mean to be rude by this): Why not just RP as a group of disgruntled personnel who don't agree with the Order's methodology and actions at Toledo. Would be far easier IMO. Heck I RP the former Intelligence head who doesn't like the current Overwatch/High Command
And loads of other things..
ORF personally,likes Corsairs.Even if they didn't help us much. I'd talk to the 'Sairs first, but speaking from personal experience (IIRC) don't expect the BD to help you if you're buddy-buddy with the sairs.
And we are revoulutionary,because your leadership is bad.
Samonth,Teos
Hope this helps, also I second Timbuktu's last comment
There is difference between "do not make new threads in Order| subsection" and "I dont want you to be here". I wouldn't even bother attempting to help you if my purpose was to simply get rid of you. But really it is all up to you.
If you intend to go with different diplomacy (like going into war with SCRA and Rheinland), pirate ID (more "freedom") or freelancer ID (if you find someone to sponsor your adventure, you get much more money) should suit you just fine.