Thread moved to mod discussion forum. Don't start mod-related topics in server forum.
Ok, first it was Marsflyer. No one flies Marsflyer now because it was made weaker (even more weak with the latest beta when it lost 1200 of its hull). Now you complain about all new ships. I already discussed this with Denier: balance is one thing, removing ships is another.
I'll start with a quote from my newly favourite despair.com: "The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures". Jokingly of course, but let me post some quotes from the old times.
OFF TOPIC!!!: DO NOT DISS THE HUGGY SHIP! The Homeworld 2 ships are a good
thing. - gezza999
Homeworld ships are damn cool - Fire_Tzunami
Oh no plz! Not Star-Wars or StarTrek ships...
Personally I prefer the "Freelancer-Homeworld mod" idea... - Profile
What about ships(fighters and battleship) from Battlestar Galactica TV series? - also Profile (from his thread all the Battlestar stuff began)
YES GET SOME BATTLESTAR GLACTIA SHIPS IN. Even the battlestar itsself. Have it big cargo and lots of guns!!!!!!!!!!! WE NEED TO SPICE UP DISCOVERY!!!!!!! - [SF]Just_Josh
I suppose the talon is quite fitting to FL. - Jamez
Let's see what Jamez said later in this thread. Oh. "1) The Talon is not 'fine'. It's a fighter Jet. NOT a spaceship."
All new ships were not my idea. Files for Talon and Battlestars were given to me by Wolfpack. Homeworld ships were proposed by Mantaray. Liberty Gunboat was included due to one of the member's suggesion, and it was alike for Slipstream. Of course, I did include all them into the mod because I thought they were appropriate for Discovery. And because I liked how they look, more or less. So I'm responsible for that, but including new ships was not my initiative. There were several ships that I found myself (freighters like Camara) but no one cares about those really. Raven Claw and Death Scythe were included because Firebase (creator of these ships) allowed me to use all his ships when I asked for Slipstream permission. So, why not use two best of about a dozen that he made?
So, basically, many of our forum members (and players) proposed to include new ships. People wanted new ships. Now you propose to remove them all, and everyone seems to agree. Where are those who wanted those ships? Those whom I quoted above and many other players? Maybe they should post a couple of lines too?
Next, there are a few misconceptions in Damned's first post. "IF there is a will we can easily get rid of those things without haveing much server probs." No we cannot. We'll have a wipe even if we remove one ship. Let alone all new ships that you listed, wipe is ensured then. You cannot force everyone to sell the ship, and there's no way to mass-change ships via any Freelancer server tools availalbe to use. As I'm not a huge fan of wipes (many wipe-loving players here?) I won't remove any of new ships.
Balance is another thing. I already made Slipstream and Raven weaker (less hull) for 5th beta. Even Talon has slightly weaker hull. So for the next verion (release probably) I'll make these ships even weaker if I get the proof that they actually outbalance fighters. Same for Battlestars. If they are really stronger than House battleships, I'll just remove 100 thousand of hull from both - this should help. But removing ships is not a good solution.
Those who don't want to use new ships have other options. NPCs don't use them. If there are balance problems, we should solve them. And, believe me, my only motivation is also benefit of all Discovery players.
Thanks Igiss, a good read. You have spent some time going back through old posts to
re-enforce your arguments, I expect others will have to now to be sure they don't
contradict themselves in the future.
Balance seems to be the biggest problem that you modders face, with all the players
having their own ideas based on playing styles and favourite ships. I personally don't
know enough about it to be able to comment constructively, so I leave that to those
who think they do. I will have a little whine about a de-tune of some thing I enjoy
using but thats just sour grapes. If you think it needs it, it probably does.
The lowering of the armour on the Raven Claw has made a noticeable difference to
my playing, with my now having to think harder about how I attack certain targets,
and a much greater use of Botts/Batts when I do. Further tinkering in my view will
make it unusable for my gameplay.
Ok, any more from me and I will be out of my depth, apart from, the Huegenot is still
a good craft. Don't diss the Huggy ......
Hoodlum :)
Some say he is a proud member of: "The most paranoid group of people in the Community."
Point taken. Balance is infront everything. We will test them and make sure everything is O.K.
"Comm. Adama:
-Starbuck whadda 'ya hear?
Starbuck:
-Nothing but the rain sir!
Comm. Adama:
-Then grab your gun and bring in the cat!
Starbuck:
-Boom , boom , boom!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My characters: - =BSG=Starbuck ; Maj. Kara Thrace(fighter pilot)
- =BSG=Galactica ; Commander Lee Adama(Battlestar)
- =BSG=Helo ; Lt. Karl Agathon (bomber)
- Colonial 795 (trader)
I'll post further in Bugs & Suggestions thread about what needs testing (not only ship-related, but also ships). Pay attention.
It's not so difficult to search through old posts - select forum, input keyword, select 'display posts' and you have about 20-30 posts regarding a specific ship. 5 minutes and you read them all. But it's useful, I found things I didn't notice before :)
Anyway, thanks for willing to co-operate. I may be able to test bugs myself but testing balance in real combat is what I cannot do... without your help.
Hold on guys , just dont start argueing! O.K. se we need to test the ships. I'm willing to do it so anyone interested can search me in-game. Right now i have all the house VHF equipped with the best from the house guns. SO we can do the tests. I'll get raven and talon if needed. Also while we are at it we can consider making the 2nd house guns lv 9 , and in future making lv 10 versions , and new codeguns for the mod . maybe a place where more common and less powerful codes are selled etc...For now we should really test the ships.
Igiss , about the numerous HW ships? I don't know anyone using them , so maybe (if some1 dosent say something else) they might be removed. In compensation we can make the current ships sold on more stations. Maybe cap ships should be sold at shipyards etc... Just ideas.
Discovery is the best mod not so much thanks to the mod itself , but to the comunity that it has created! Peace All! Be GOOD :P
"Comm. Adama:
-Starbuck whadda 'ya hear?
Starbuck:
-Nothing but the rain sir!
Comm. Adama:
-Then grab your gun and bring in the cat!
Starbuck:
-Boom , boom , boom!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------
My characters: - =BSG=Starbuck ; Maj. Kara Thrace(fighter pilot)
- =BSG=Galactica ; Commander Lee Adama(Battlestar)
- =BSG=Helo ; Lt. Karl Agathon (bomber)
- Colonial 795 (trader)
I don't mind any of the ships being mentioned in here, except for the Battlestar (that I never said I liked so HA!). They aren't good or FL-like in looks. Plus we added a VERY strong BS that is even IMMUNE to torps. Out of all the ships mentioned in here thats the only one I want rid of...
Just a thought but if you cant get rid of some of the ships without a wipe you could offer to fully compensate those who have it if they would get rid of it and then make it only sold on the lost battlestar so no one can get them and theres doesnt have to be a wipe.
I know where it is Cortana, I just have to find it. - Commodore Puddles
No one uses HW ships because most of them are sort of middle-class, not the top-level VHFs. There is one VHF among them but it's very specific, so few people use it. If you think that this is a coincidence, you are mistaken. I didn't mean those ships to become massive.
However some of those ships' design is interesting, so why not just leave them where they are for those who want something special?
Each station can have only 3 ships sold onboard, so there's no way to put all of those ships to one station. That's an in-game limitation that no one has been able to crack as far as I'm concerned. 2Dab: I already said about Battlestars... if they are immune to mortars, make them more vulnerable to normal weaponry and you get the result needed.