(01-26-2015, 10:58 AM)Mímir Wrote: The guy in the example in the OP was talking about ganks and capital ships, I don't see how ZOI and bounty hunting relates to that specifically.
Thank you for the comment. I edited it.
It is about bounties, as the 2 snubs were logging for the bounty and a random OC BS joined in to make it the hopeless overkill it was in the end. It felt shitty. Happened repeatedly (60+ mils makes it worth logging for a solo target) and drove the player off. So, yes, it is linked.
Quote:To the guy above: There's plenty of risk involved. I can't count the amount of times I've tracked down a target, engaged, and suddenly 5 of his mates come online.
Beginners and indies do not have 5 friends. They are alone until someone picks them up. Until then, their game experience is shaped by being targetted for reasons they do not know, and killed by mechanisms they have no way to understand. Therefore, some sort of limitation is needed, imo, to protect especially the new players from being overly frustrated. Ye, I know, carebear etc... still: I think what is happening is bad for the server, bad for gameplay and I even know that the bountying parties also do not want that.
Well I was thinking if only official faction members (as well as individually mentioned players and groups) were valid targets, a new player, who is a member of IMG for instance, will have support from his faction mates. The problem lies in the fact that new players are just as viable targets (if not more) than experienced players due to blanket bounties.
I agree with what Jack said, concerning bounties based on ZOI. I for one avoid logging on my official transport and going solo when server pop is up cause yeah i don't mind getting killed, it's just that I kinda mind getting killed multiple times in a row.
Also yes I suppose i could hire an escort , that makes sense right? Well not many escorts ( reliable) around plus nobody will protect one trader for like 6 or more systems for less than 10 million, i'm sure. Flying in a group is the best choice but that can't happen anytime you want for understandable reasons.
Now I'm not complaining about this as in Ohh noo, I can't take it !!. Not even close, but what I am thinking is if I feel somewhat bothered by this ( been playing on the server daily for like 8 months) just imagine how a new player feels when put in that situation.
When discussing new players we should keep in mind that most have only one trader/miner char to begin with so it's not like Oh I'll just switch to my other gazillion chars and do something else.
Another thing is some factions kinda despise each other for ooRP reasons which are beyond my knowledge, and they will use all tools to hack at each other. One of these tools is ,yes you guessed it, bounties. Things escalate, at least one of them suffer from this, but it's nothing in comparison with what the indies new players caught in the middle go through.
(01-26-2015, 10:58 AM)Mímir Wrote: To the guy above: There's plenty of risk involved. I can't count the amount of times I've tracked down a target, engaged, and suddenly 5 of his mates come online. Or random freelancers jumping in to defend the target without pay and so on. Solo bounty hunting is as challenging as solo piracy, both of those are probably the activities with the highest rate of failure out of all activities on the server.
Then you're doing it wrong haha <3. I'd like to welcome you to the Taus, junkers here do it very effectively.
Yesterday on my VHF, I tried to help an indie IMG Hegemon escape from a Junker VHF, and 1 minute into the RP dialogue, a Junker bomber and Outcast battlecruiser arrived near us.
Days ago, chasing Junker ships, we got into an RP dialogue between IMG/KNF/Junkers, and by the time it was done, probably everyone awake on the Junker faction was logged on to gank us. Right now, as IMG player(s), you don't stand a chance to survive Taus/Kusari unless you disregard the RP, cut it short, give the KNF a finger, start shooting things immediately and get out before you get outnumbered & outgunned.
These are just two examples out of the heap. In the Taus, you can't fly an IMG ship apart from when most of the faction logs in at night for the convoy.
You can only convoy if you are IMG|.
I fly a Samura 5ker during the day. 2+ people don't log to kill me when I fly the Samura 5ker.
(01-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Deeceem Wrote: Yeah... as I already mentioned in another thread: I don't think there is a major link if any between bounties and the "unfair" or overly excessive killings of new players.
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Honestly one player leaving isn't representative for anything in my opinion or to point anything out. People also stopped playing WoW on PvP Servers, because they got ganked while leveling. Some people can't handle being targeted by others and being virtually killed aka "lose".
This isn't really about being able to handle pvp. I'm the new guy Jack mentioned in his first post. I play games only for PvP, the roleplay and economy here was a beautiful addition to it for me. I'm not trying to sound cocky but I played multiple games at a fairly high competition level. I can handle losing, trust me.
This is not a personal issue, limited to a single person. Please try to see the bigger picture. This is not about being able to handle being targeted. This is about battleships bombers and gunboats logging for a single Hegemon. This is about systems being locked out for factions during the day.
(01-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Deeceem Wrote: Talking about risks and unfariness tied to bounty hunting/being hunted in general. On one end people seem to complain about hunters being able to use the player list.
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Targeted people can also use the player list to avoid getting caught by lawfuls, criminals, hunters, nomads etc..
Not when they lock from 3 different bases/jumpholes and cover all your exits. If you get to 10k+ distance from Java, you don't have enough reaction time.
(01-26-2015, 12:05 PM)Deeceem Wrote: You don't want to pay 10 million to a pirate? Pay 3 million to an escort/scout.
I was the escort for that Hegemon. They brought another bomber and a battlecruiser in less than two minutes. One delays you with RP, rest flood in. Escorts don't help you in the Taus during the day.
I'd say that we should limit people to claiming on one board and only that board. This helps eliminate the 60+ million credits for a kill and makes ones that remain look like blatant OORP hatred being projected.
I've got an interest in this due to Pavel's posted sirius wide bounty on OSI ships.
Currently there's a set of BHG gunboats F1'd in space near the jump holes in Omega-49, that log on very shortly before an OSI tagged vessel, give literally twenty seconds of interaction, extraneous dialogue of like, three lines edited out, and then F1 again in space.
Code:
[05.02.2015 03:37:27] [Whalers]-NAME REMOVED: Ahoy matey.
[05.02.2015 03:39:32] Death: OSI-Gytrash was put out of action by [Whalers]-NAME REMOVED(Gun).
They can do this because Omega-49 is the home system and hub for OSI, and OSI mainly flies whales, unarmed and flimsy as hell transports.
Note that in this interaction I actually offered to pay more than the bounty, just to see if they would take it, they were after blues more than interaction and it shows.
This is of course not typical for all bounty hunter engagements but it's true for sadly too many of them, and giving factions the ability to bounty way outside their reach makes no sense. Why should Daumann, a company that ostensibly exists for making profit, give two hoots about unarmed traders on the other side of Sirius? If the whales were flying around cluttering up Rheinland space then I could see it, but the bounty doesn't make sense as it stands and is just off putting.
This discourages people from logging onto ships, it's not like the bounty hunter will log when there's a big convoy, that's not an easy blue.
It also would not make sense for say, the Liberty Navy to put out a bounty on Outcast vessels operating in Rheinland, why would they care what happens over there? Not their space, not their problem.
Perhaps this is overly focused on the one example but it's an example that can be stretched to apply to the system as a whole, if any faction can bounty any enemy in any system then what's to stop someone with a grudge against the IND and too much cash from putting a 200 million credit bounty for every IND ship kill and watching faction activity plummet like a rock?
Limiting bounties to ZOI would make little sense, in my opinion.
"Hey, we absolute hate these disgusting people and do not seek to condone their actions any longer. We want to hit them where it hurts, but outside of our territory they are a nice bunch that is not to be touched!"
Imagine a country not going after international terrorists because "They are not doing anything within our borders, it's fine guys."
On another note, refusing to understand the justification of one faction bountying another doesn't make the justification any less relevant.
First they came for pirates. Now they come for bunters.
You're on the list? Care to be safe, care to be escorted, care to find some diplomatic ways to solve the problem, care to put them on the list as well. Use cloaks, after all. People have got used to safe trading/mining too much.
No surprise people are hunting for some nice sums, what makes you wonder? Your concrete example proves nothing nor shows anything unusual.
I will also re-mind you that getting blue is way harder compared to how it was say in .85.
Only being able to claim bounties within the ZoI+1 of the faction who set it would make more sense than the current galaxy wide system but I don't think it'd solve much on the whole ganking front. Not unless a rule of fair play is enforced to dissuade the log in ganks and overpowering fights, though I doubt that'd ever happen.