There are many complaints about balance and requests for changes due to a few players ability to use weapons or ships in an out of purpose way. Examples include torpedos being used to kill fighters effectively when they are suposed to be used against caps, gunboats being used to effectively kill battleships when they are supposed to be mainly used against fighters/bombers, and I am sure there are more examples.
I personaly think skill is obviously an integral part of the game, and a very enjoyable thing to develope. However, the features most often complained about are usually highly gameplay impacting. They are "swingy" in their property. They provide the least amount of time to unskilled players to react, making the gameplay less forgiving. Example; player skilled at using laser weapons will still lose to a player who is skilled at using torps (or other insta kill weapons). These features that benefit the attacker more than the defender are popular because they appear to have a better, "easier" chance at a reward (a win) for the player using it. I, as an observer, find this a fastinating aspect of the game, and there are players that obtain an infamous name for themselves due to their skill. So, I think this ability to be "skilled" should still be available.
My question is not should these skill promoting features be available. I want to know if some of them are apropriate in a RP sense and if the legitamate ones are too easy (or too hard) to be skilled at. I know certain features, namely the torp type weapons, are by design impossible to prevent people who are skilled enough to use them effectively in a way they where not meant to be used. I also do not promote the "nerfing" of features to make them useless for their intended purpose.
So, tell me what you think about the situation. This is a place to talk about this subject constructively. I apolagize for any "wordiness" in the above post. :$
Well I don't think one Gunboat should be able to take down a Battleship, or 1 fighter a Gunboat. 2 yeah with hard work but not 1 in both cases.
Regarding torpedos in fighter PVP. I am a torpedo user on several of my fighters on others I have CD's. Every weapon has it's advantages. To be honest taking down a fighter with a torpedo only happens if:
1. You are fighting a new player who charges head on at you with his sheild down, known as suicide.
2. You are very very lucky against a half decent player. A torp kill on anyone who is very good is extremely rare and very satisfying.
For anyone that doesnt know if you are fighting against a player who uses torps and you have a CD launcher mounted then fire a CD. There is a good chance the CD missile will track into the torpedo causing it to blow up in the players face.
Also use your CD's to reset a players engines which stops them engine kiling and causes them to move at 80. This forces the person you are fighting to turn there engines back off and buys you vital seconds in keeping your target from being as agile so you can pound on them with your guns.
Anyone can be skilled at a wide variety of load outs, it really is just practise and experience.
there are two views of what might be out of character in such a case. one is that a character that has the skills to score such kills - but is practicing self restrain - would be out of character, cause obviously he could if he wanted. so a gunboat for example and a pilot that perfectly knows he can kill a battleship is out of HIS character when he is not taking it down; provided that they are hostile and attacking it would be ... in terms of factions and situation well within the limits.
another point of view is, that it is well outside the roleplay limits to do so, cause it is simply not supposed to be like that. NPCs show you that it is not within roleplay to act like that, player complaints tell you that and the balance of the game is against you, too. and yes, it is indeed out of roleplay to single a battleship in anything less than a pack of ships or another capship. and yes, a torpedo can luckily insta a fighter - but is never fired with the intention to hit a fighter.
its all about the purists of roleplay or the purists about balance or ppl that think playability is the most important thing.
the problem we have with freelancer is - that it is a first person shooter. you have allmost no simulation aspects, no instruments and a fighter is flows in exactly the same way a battleship is operated.
When freelancer was announced, it was more a simulation. fighters were direct input ships ( like now ) - while big ships ( transporters, capships, which were at that time playable ) were piloted with a series of comands and manouvers which consisted of different "styles" that could be combined to work out a custom manouver. - that way, a capital ship was able to perform evasive manouvers, while the player was on the turrets. - but it was all turned down in favour for playablity.
that is where roleplay steps in though. skill makes certain parts of the game overpowering. and roleplay is there to limit it. or to put it that way - if there was one weapon ... call it the ultra-nova, whatever, being the very best and most powerful weapon purchasable in sirius, .. a missile with stunning tracking ability, a speed of 1000 and a damage potential of 50.000, but roleplay said, there is only ONE. - those are the limits then. even if there were more than one purchasable, only one "should" be around.
that is when roleplay limits its use - and, if everyone is a good roleplayer, and it is widely known that this one prototype is allready in use - people would simply not get it. of course, it would never happen:D.
about those skills that you stated...much about the complaints are not primarily from the actual skills. it often comes from the reactions when those people are confronted with it.
when a player is insta killed he is mad, cause insta kills are giving the killed a feeling to be treated unfairly. however, when the killer writes in an offensive tone "bloody learn to dodge!" or "i am just better than you, learn to fly!" THEN people get mad at it and ask for a nerf.
so if the people being able to do it due to skill ( and not luck ) stopped bragging about it - there d be less problems, cause there aren t too many around to affect the balance very much. but those few are very loud, when it comes to reactions concerning their skills. so i think that people are shocked when they are insta killed and question it - but they are offended when they are treated like a rookie no matter if they are or maybe not.
so, personally, i believe that singlekilling a battleship in a gunboat is OK, if you can - torp killing in a bomber is perfectly fine, if you can - nerfing it means that - once someone develops a "special" skill, it must be nerft down. - once most of the players use torpedos as fighter insta kills ( and succeed ) - its time to nerf them - but right now - i don t see a problem. same with gunboats. i belive that less than 10% can actually go for a battleship all alone, and less are successful.
No ship class is completely invulnerable to any other ship class
Fighters(in numbers) can take down BS, GB can take down BS ....
If a really good pilot flies one of those ships it can kill virtually any of the other classes with not so good pilots... so it promotes skill.
Imagine if for example BS would become impossible for fighters or 1-3 GBs to take down... that will just bring more hard feelings of BS-whoring and the like...
Yes some people feel bad when they are insta-killed... but they can get the same weapon and try it themselves... and they find out that it's not easy... so they stop feeling bad and recognize it was a good pilot.
How bad would you feel if there comes a ship that you have no chance of killing and wasted you?... you'll just want to buy that ship. Yes newbs want to buy big ships.. but usually they find out that they are not uber even before they buy them.... or short time after they bought them.... so they find out that there is no "easy" way to become good... you need to learn.
How I think about ships/weapons:
Is there a way to counter it, does it fit the purpose... does it add to variety?
some examples:
Bombers more agile than fighters (Kusari/BD bomber in beta4)... difficult to counter....not fitting purpose...everyone would fly those...bad
GBs with more firepower than Cruisers/BS (Cerberus in beta4-5)... immpossible to counter...not fitting purpose..destroys variety...bad
Novas killing fighters (4.83)... possible to counter... not fitting Nova purpose.. all bombers use this loadout... bad
Torps killing fighters... possible to counter... a bit out of purpose... adds to variety(Mini/Inferno/CD)... ok
EDIT: Maybe I should have included requires skill to use...that will be:
agile bombers.. no
GBs with cerbs... no
Novas... yes
Torps... not so much
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
Well i think skill is usefull for about 80% of the ships and weapons... the other 20% are just "spray and pray" if you ask me.
People that can get the best out a ship are just plain and simple MORE skilled then those who cant. Dont blame the ships or guns for being "overpowered" blame the pilot. If he cant dodge/aim then who's fault is it?
As far as insta-kill weapons go I stand by the quote in my sig.
"War. War never changes. Since the dawn of human kind, when our ancestors first discovered the killing power of rock and bone, blood has been spilled in the name of everything, from God to justice to simple, psychotic rage."
well i'm fine with people of better skill winning. They will ALWAYS find a way to be better because well they are good. no need to nerf everything...not saying that things that are broke shouldn't be fixed (GB Cerbs for example)
as for me, my PVP skills are very low. i'm still struggling to find my niche loadout on my fighter. and i'm marveled at the skill of some of the people i fight. i mean dang, i can hardly ever get anyone's shield down before i'm dead.
Ever since the first Freelancer Multiplayer server, torpedoes have always been used to kill other fighters. It looks like an easy insta-kill weapon, but torpedoes do take skill to use. They can also get CDed and blow up in your face.