I'm still not convinced that it is a good idea to provide more avenues for situations where Zoners simply cannot remain neutral.
It is a problem worth dicussing in relation to:
- Game balance (One faction shouldn't really be doing it all, should they?)
- Piracy (yes, nub Zoners will go on an "BUT I'M NEUTRAL!!!"-spree and experienced Zoners will FR5 when they get robbed)
- Background / Lore (Zoners navigate in a very politically delicate (and dangerous!) environment in the Omicrons, wouldn't resource extraction affect that?)
- The future of the mod (just imagine that mad and ludicrous stories (and ships!) we will be faced with when Zoners establish themselves as self-sufficient and rich in minerals and natural resources. nothx.)
ZoE back in the day, give 5 years ago perhaps, mined the iridium in Kansas quite a bit.
Pirated? You bet.
Broken feature? I don't see how it could be when its 1 commodity.
Lets not point our fingers at IMG for their broken group
EDIT:
(08-12-2014, 03:34 PM)Mímir Wrote: - Game balance (One faction shouldn't really be doing it all, should they?)
IMG do a heck of a lot more. Let's nerf them! Sides just iridium and nothing else?
(08-12-2014, 03:34 PM)Mímir Wrote: - Piracy (yes, nub Zoners will go on an "BUT I'M NEUTRAL!!!"-spree and experienced Zoners will FR5 when they get robbed)
*Points at ZoE* Not once do I remember them requesting a FR5.
(08-12-2014, 03:34 PM)Mímir Wrote: - Background / Lore (Zoners navigate in a very politically delicate (and dangerous!) environment in the Omicrons, wouldn't resource extraction affect that?)
Not gonna touch this one.
-"If we do not learn at least one thing a day....Our minds turn to stupor"- Kyle Sparrgrove -2005
(05-15-2013, 07:55 PM)Thunderer Wrote: However, if you wanted to mine Zoners, I'm afraid I can't help you, but I'd also like to know the way very much.
The common joke is that mining pilots and crew puts Human Organs in your hold, but I'm not so sure what the Zoner biology is like these days. Maybe Commonwealth Zoners give the Gallic human ore: Wine!
yay! u izz back!
(05-15-2013, 07:37 AM)Echo 7-7 Wrote: Clarification: when I say Zoners are not a mining faction, this is in comparison to the factions whose primary focuses are mining (img, Kruger). I personally wouldn't rule out the roleplay existence of Zoner miners.
Bqsically, every faction can mine. for example, I have an order tagged, miner id'd hege, I use it for RP.
Well, I was heavily against half the stuff IMG got as well, so I don't see what use that is to this discussion. Also do note that IMG have a fair amount of enemies. Just because some faction in the past didn't do something, it is no guarantee that factions in the present or future won't, it's a super erroneous argument.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, I'm just pointing out that the suggestion would be that much stronger if you actually took some of these things into consideration, rather than look for easy ways to ignore it.
(08-12-2014, 03:41 PM)Mímir Wrote: Well, I was heavily against half the stuff IMG got as well, so I don't see what use that is to this discussion. Also do note that IMG have a fair amount of enemies. Just because some faction in the past didn't do something, it is no guarantee that factions in the present or future won't, it's a super erroneous argument.
I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade, I'm just pointing out that the suggestion would be that much stronger if you actually took some of these things into consideration, rather than look for easy ways to ignore it.
Neutrality is a flawed argument since it doesn't hold water in piracy terms.
Enemy count is also a flawed argument since any unlawful organisation can pirate you.
I would like to take in decent suggestions which actually affect the mining situation, but so far I've seen none made. Wait, the only one I've seen made is that there are no fields, but that seems to be more an oversight by developers than something else, because almost all fields seem to be added in and modified to some extent.
(08-12-2014, 03:34 PM)Mímir Wrote: - Background / Lore (Zoners navigate in a very politically delicate (and dangerous!) environment in the Omicrons, wouldn't resource extraction affect that?)
- The future of the mod (just imagine that mad and ludicrous stories (and ships!) we will be faced with when Zoners establish themselves as self-sufficient and rich in minerals and natural resources. nothx.)
In lore the Omicrons are meant to be resource rich and dangerous, and Zoners live in this are and thrive off it which would mean they would have to have something to trade for other commodities.
Right now they manufacture things out of mid-air. And they have a full shipline with nothing else being added or planned to be added.
Quite sure Zoner factions handle sane piracy requests (200 mil r dai excluded) with paying and no FR5.
If you are systematically targeted by groups, such as you will be as you describe above, how do you intend on maintaining neutrality status on paper?
Also several ID's have distinctions between classes of targets based on reputation ("you may engage ships hostile to X" etc.), of which the Zoners are exempt with their alleged neutrality.
Do you not see that there are problems venturing down this path for the Zoners?
Or to put it into something tangible - how does it make sense that Daumann are red dead enemies of the Corsairs just because they are miners from Rheinland, and Zoners are neutral?
Also in-lore, Zoners thrive on trading between the different Omicron factions, not mining. Not saying that no zoner ever mined, but it's not their thing in-lore.
Edit: What I am getting at is if you are willing to make changes to overall diplomacy as a consequence of the faction's changed status, I'm all for it. But no Mary-Sue this round, please.
(08-12-2014, 03:54 PM)Mímir Wrote: If you are systematically targeted by groups, such as you will be as you describe above, how do you intend on maintaining neutrality status on paper?
Or to put it into something tangible - how does it make sense that Daumann are red dead enemies of the Corsairs just because they are miners from Rheinland, and Zoners are neutral?
Also in-lore, Zoners thrive on trading between the different Omicron factions, not mining. Not saying that no zoner ever mined, but it's not their thing in-lore.
There's not really much for trading either.
"From Rheinland" means a lot more than two words. Means supporting Rheinland whilst also taking arms to Corsair expansion. Also doesn't mean supplying Corsairs or providing a place to buy things.
(08-12-2014, 04:08 PM)n00bl3t Wrote: "From Rheinland" means a lot more than two words. Means supporting Rheinland whilst also taking arms to Corsair expansion. Also doesn't mean supplying Corsairs or providing a place to buy things.
Well, that is a fair point, but at what point are Corsairs, for instance, allowed to look at Zoners as a competing power and strike with the same vengeance as they struck Rheinland?