I like fighting in this game. As a result I like to fight a lot.
Having long fights is better than short fights, as the total amount of combat increases. Removing bots and batts would mean the total amount of time I have to enjoy a fight is reduced. Do not remove bots and batts.
On to the eagle. Honestly? It does fine for me. Just fly it in a totally different style to most other VHFs. (In other words, it's the only VHF I feel comfortable using a CD with.)
It's pretty big, but you can get a lot out of it regardless. It's not as good as the the wraith or sabre, but those are two massively overpowered ships, particularly when you add 5.88 refire guns to that.
Discovery balance is based on how loud the crying is. If you have a group of people who regularly face an overpowered ship, but man up and just deal with it, then nothing happens.
If you have a group of people who regularly face a fairly average ship, but cry about it being overpowered, or their own gear being underpowered, then you end up with average gear randomly getting nerfed, or already good equipment getting buffed in order to appease the complainers.
That coupled with an unyeilding addiction to numbers and theory rather than what actually happens in game and a stubborn refusal to change anything when actually proven wrong, are what causes disco balance to be a little off.
Frankly, even with those highly annoying balance traits, the game is pretty playable. It's more balanced than vanilla was, where essentially you had a choice of eagles with tizzies and nom blasters, or losing.
' Wrote:I like fighting in this game. As a result I like to fight a lot.
Having long fights is better than short fights, as the total amount of combat increases. Removing bots and batts would mean the total amount of time I have to enjoy a fight is reduced. Do not remove bots and batts.
Same here even that I am nub in PvP.
Or do reduce the fighter DPS with 40% increasing the projective speed. You have long fights fighters does not own capital ships like now and effectively kill bombers.
' Wrote:On to the eagle. Honestly? It does fine for me. Just fly it in a totally different style to most other VHFs. (In other words, it's the only VHF I feel comfortable using a CD with.) It's pretty big, but you can get a lot out of it regardless. It's not as good as the the wraith or sabre, but those are two massively overpowered ships, particularly when you add 5.88 refire guns to that.
I love eagle but it is really big for what he is packing- It eats a lot of razors and dies due to it, it needs more hull definitely to compensate for the size- 10200 or 10500 will be ok, if you compare it with Sabre- 1 gun more, better power core, holes in the ship with Vanilla good hit-box that stuff comes and goes into the holes without damaging it and above all like 2k more hull- yes eagle do sux compared with Sabre- both are open market civilian ships.
Buffing Wright is a big mistake seriously- the ship is damn good now, the guns are damn good now too :angry:, I would say to buff the Guardian guns instead.
' Wrote:Discovery balance is based on how loud the crying is. If you have a group of people who regularly face an overpowered ship, but man up and just deal with it, then nothing happens.
If you have a group of people who regularly face a fairly average ship, but cry about it being overpowered, or their own gear being underpowered, then you end up with average gear randomly getting nerfed, or already good equipment getting buffed in order to appease the complainers.
That coupled with an unyeilding addiction to numbers and theory rather than what actually happens in game and a stubborn refusal to change anything when actually proven wrong, are what causes disco balance to be a little off.
I cannot disagree with you too, looking at the Molly feedback topic- Mollys have the worst VHF in game, and people QQ all the time that we use normal VHFs instead of our own, meh even our HF sux- you need to be ace with brutal aim and sliding to use its potential, if you compare our HF -
5 guns HF core, HF shield, HF hull, HF bots with the templar:
You will see that actually the Templar is quite smaller and that our HF is actually bigger that the common VHFs in game but have all possible HF weaknesses. And the half of the community go: [color=#CC0000] "NOT U [M]- YOU TECH WHORES U DONT FLY YOUR SHIPS"
It is really sad but true. I would not comment our "VHF" because bombers like Roc have better chance in PvP then it- if Zapp eats snacs in it then it sux more then describable.
So yes we don't whine loud enough as it seems. We just found another way to deal with it.
' Wrote:Frankly, even with those highly annoying balance traits, the game is pretty playable. It's more balanced than vanilla was, where essentially you had a choice of eagles with tizzies and nom blasters, or losing.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
Let's face it it's not as simple as people make it out to be. The complaints about too long fights come in only due to some pilots who use sabres (or similar ships like this) that are simply a lot harder to hit than any other VHF due to the stats they were given. This means that it takes ages to go through a sabre's 66 bots for example, while it doesn't take quite as much time to get through an odin's 62 or a guardian's 68 if good aim is applied. There is only a handful of people on the server that can dodge for a long while without dying, they are the ones that bring in the majority of the complaints about "fighters being too hard to hit", and balancing the game according to them is well... not optimal in my opinion.
What should happen instead is ships that are incredibly easy to dodge in should be slowed down, and this way we don't need to worry about absolutely gimping fighters that actually do take damage.
On bomber balance
People forget that bombers should not be hard countered by gunboats. If they get too slow, they will be and then factions like Xenos have nothing to fight against gunboats attacking them, except dogpiling the enemy. It would quickly become bad for them, and as such this is the reason why bombers are not as easy to balance as people say.
And I know I will get response to this that will say "well maybe Xenos aren't supposed to fight capships then but run from it", I'll just say now that everyone knows this isn't true and that 99% of all fun in this game is based around a fair fight that you can win without resorting to cheese, cheating or dogpiles. I'm sorry if you won't be able to convince me otherwise.
What is happening however is bombers are getting changes to equipment that will force them to become more specialised. They will be able to mount equipment that will make them better against bigger capships and worse against smaller (high damage output, low accuracy), or that will make them better against gunboats and not that good against bigger (low damage output, high accuracy). That coupled with changes to cruiser/battleship turrets should make bombers vs capitals better than it is now.
On individual ship balance
A new approach is needed for identifying problems and I completely agree. Closed beta tests are as always more a failure than a success. We might just start going around asking certain people on what is wrong with certain ships and how they would like it to be fixed then take conclusions based on that, and then fine tune in open beta. This should address at least some of the gripes people have.
I have some ideas on what to do with some of the ships that are currently completely useless in any kind of engagement unless spammed (most notably the pirate line), it's unlikely they will be included on 4.86 first release, but possibly later in the beta.
' Wrote:What should happen instead is ships that are incredibly easy to dodge in should be slowed down, and this way we don't need to worry about absolutely gimping fighters that actually do take damage.
So that is why the Wraith is getting a buff. Yes, that makes sense. After all, at the moment, the Wraith and Odin have the same speed and same dodging capabilities, according to the balance team lead. According to him, the Wraith and Guardian are also completely balanced while dueling one another.
Please, balance in this mod has only one problem, and that problem has a name. Well, maybe two, the latter being deafness to suggestions from people that actually do know what they're talking about. But then again, that falls under the first problem, doesnt it?
' Wrote:So that is why the Wraith is getting a buff. Yes, that makes sense. After all, at the moment, the Wraith and Odin have the same speed and same dodging capabilities, according to the balance team lead. According to him, the Wraith and Guardian are also completely balanced while dueling one another.
What buff? I just looked in files and... hold size reduced by 1 and turning very slightly reduced so just wondering:D
' Wrote:Please, balance in this mod has only one problem, and that problem has a name. Well, maybe two, the latter being deafness to suggestions from people that actually do know what they're talking about. But then again, that falls under the first problem, doesnt it?
' Wrote:What buff? I just looked in files and... hold size reduced by 1 and turning very slightly reduced so just wondering:D
' Wrote:We'll see <strike>about the hornvipers</strike> in beta.
Its also funny how you completely ignored the problem I pointed out in the second paragraph of my post. Alright, perhaps you found it too "direct" at certain individuals so you chose not to respond.
Let me rephrase that then.
Why does the balance team (what team?) not ask for help in balancing this mod from people that know what they're talking about, if they do not have the required knowledge to do so by themselves? Furthermore, even if they do, which is quite rare, why do they not listen to said advice?
Because when we did, you all ragequit the chat or did nothing I am sorry but you know this is true:DYourself, Sina, Mark, etc. all asked to be included and you were and it went pretty much nowhere, except for the few individuals that were left or that I had to speak to privately and drag answers out of them. So who's fault is that then?