Independent Disco players

[Govedo13]

He is saying something much different anyway. He is saying that there would be better if the people act like they should act, he is saying that 6.9 would do more work for admins then limiting the non-generic IDs to official factions.

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Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Regious Tuk'Cone]

I think that most of the issues with Freelancers are the Freelancer Pirate IDs, that select a ship that is completely out of their element. For a example, the freelancer pirate might gets a Sabre, a Border World's ship, and outfit it with weapons that is obtained from the Junkers, Rogues, and Zoner weapons. This may reduce the power core limits, but they'll continue using the same equpiement thinking it doesn't make sense. Ship with larger power cores, like the Camara, can use weapons from corporations, like GMG's Sunblaster Turrets, and have little effect to the powercore's limitations. It's having one to many weapons from different houses that cuase problems for the player. I believe many new players don't understand the power core system setup. Technically, this is something people that understand the weapon-to-ship aspect has little to nothing to worry about, this just means those equiping their ships with weapons that don't either belong to their ship and ID, or the ship and weapons. It's dependent on the player and their choices will determine their wins/loses and whether they servive a battle wih ships with the same of similar weapon layouts that have little to no effects.

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Recruitment of SkyShield - http://discoverygc.com/forums/index.php?...pic=118290

[Mímir]

I think a lot of people are really off the mark. I think indies in general do things just as well as faction-people. I have had ridiculous nonsensical encounters with both official faction players and indies, really. Only difference is that indies might be a bit more humble. Also take a look at the lolwuttery of the Zoner-Corsair disagreement and how that panned out over 60 pages of OORP rage - please don't tell me that official faction people are more sensible etc. than indies...

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[Agmen of Eladesor]

Interesting set of ... well, to be perfectly honest, whining.

When you think that it's you against the entire forum, perhaps you ought to look at what you're saying and see if either you're not getting your point across clearly to support your argument, or perhaps you're actually wrong in your thinking.

First off, look at what official factions are. That is explained in the last sentence of FR1.

Official factions are guardians of the reputation of their NPC faction in general, and should always seek to act in ways that cause it to be respected.

Now, what authority does a faction have? That's in FR2.

RIGHT 2) Official factions have authority over players of the same NPC affiliation, as long as RP justification is provided. ... Official Factions cannot, under any cicrumstances, require another player to follow non-canon RP if that player doesn't want to.

Thus, in the BAF example mentioned previously, if the BAF 1ic or 2ic was around, they could tell the indies not to engage to overbalance a combat.

An example of "good" exercise of these rights is to require an independent player to not utilize a heavy captial ship against a smaller lone fighter or bomber, or to not enter an existing fight where entering the fight would unbalance it greatly.

However - canon RP also has the BAF hostile to the Mollies and the Corsairs both. So the official faction ships cannot order the BAF indies to assist the Mollies against the Corsairs if the indies don't want to do so.

By the same token, FR2 still requires that official factions allow indies to participate.

Official factions have a responsibility to incorporate willing and responsible "independent" characters belonging to their NPC faction affiliation into the ordinary operations and activities taking place in the faction's territory as much as possible.

As far as an official faction being able to FR5 someone with their own ID ... the BHG|Core did that. Twice - and not just to one single ship, but to an entire group. Actually being able to do that is still listed in one of the examples, even.

Example: An Outcast pirates fellow Outcasts in front of Alpha. He has been warned numerous times by Independents, Official Factions & players representing the Outcast Government. He either never responds to PM's or states " No speak English" . Screen shots are taken for evidence. With said evidence, he could be listed as Hostile to the Outcast even if he is one.

You have to have darned good in-game and in-forum RP to do so, along with supporting screenshots. It's not something that can be done on a whim.

Anyway, your basic premise is incorrect.

I would like to know how we can stop Independents from owning faction equipment... Having a faction ID, Faction Technology and IFF, and claiming they are not part of that faction is completely unacceptable.

With the exception of a couple of special factions - K|Hara, for example - the official faction does not 'own' the equipment. That's why and where you're in error. If they have an ID, they're just as much a part of the faction as you are - whether they're in the LN, the BAF, the BHG, or any other ID in the game. Your official faction may be the keeper of the lore as a representative of the faction ID - but you're not the entirity of the whole faction. Again, look back at FR2.

Official factions that are attempting to represent the entirety of a NPC affiliation have the responsibility to be caretakers of the history and evolving storyline of the NPC faction in such a way that it remains open to involvement by non-player faction affiliates to the extent that is permitted by the server rules.

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Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.

[Adam_Spire]

Spire here isn't talking about removing all indies. What he is aiming for is to stop the incessant lolwuttery of certain indies. His example stated is an indie claiming he is not part of a particular faction and is a full independent despite having said faction's ID and IFF, all for the sake of pirating without a nerf.

We shouldn't remove indies, we should just have a tighter hold on them. At least implement a faction right that allows the sanctioning of indies within an NPC faction. I would prefer that FR5s can be applied to indies within the same faction. This way, any person who goes around shooting his own men can be branded a "traitor" and be FR5d, thus preventing overall lolwuttery.

My god is someone actually reading what I'€™m saying and not reading '€“into- what I'€™m saying?
To be fair, lolwutery can be just someone'€™s attempt to have fun to hell with rules and everyone else. It'€™s adorable for about five seconds then needs to end.

People not acting according to their ID are breaking the rules. Bastille is full of people who did that.

For someone to be FR5ed you need to write a report just as well as to get someone sanctioned who broke server rules.

I don't really see the difference there.

I don't like having to hold the fire button down at the same time I'€™m holding the Print Scrn button down. I'€™m not a sanctionlancer who enjoys taking the time to file a report every time when all it takes is for that player to change his ID or join the faction and play like that faction. It's an endless game of cat and mouse. That starts, not with me just being apathetic and accepting it all, but that player being responsible. I know its a partial solution Zeb, but there's got to be an easier way.

One example of too many. The BHC battlecruiser that launched from FP1 to attack hessians and pirates. Shouldn't have been there. I could file a sanction report. Didn't. Next option, open a Roleplay channel, to the Bounty Hunter Core. Can't. That ship isn'€™t officially theirs, it's an Independent. Next. Need to contact that player and tell him to GTFO. Will he? Hope so. End result. He pretends he cant understand english and loses his guns and ships, most likely switches to another character and wash rinse repeat. Nothing is learned and we'€™re told to just accept him until he enters into another pvp where he'€™s not suppose to be. He doesn'€™t attempt to change and he just drolls on. This is what people want me to accept?

[font=Comic Sans Ms]I have had an independent lane hacker for a year and a half. She has her own story, adds to the environment, hasn't made life hell for anyone, and has no intention of ever joining the official hacker faction (Or can, given that she'd have to give up everything to join them)

Why are you telling me I have to either join up or leave? What have I done to offend the official faction? They've never complained about me, so why are you?

I'm really thinking about this because its close in many ways to the role play I'm doing in Rheinland. One main exception, I'€™m taking the nerf.

You said:
and has no intention of ever joining the official hacker faction (Or can, given that she'd have to give up everything to join them

You'€™ve just made a clear and apparent statement that you have no ties to the Hackers but get all the benefits of a Hacker and suffer no penalties from your choices. Not fair.

I'€™m making a clear and apparent statement that I'€™m independent of Rheinalnd. You still have the Lane Hacker ID I'€™m betting. Other than that I know nothing about your Role play. The second I see you I'€™m thinking '€œHacker'€, not an independent. If you are a hacker at heart but will not follow the ID of a hacker, time to get a different ID.

Interesting set of ... well, to be perfectly honest, whining.

When you think that it's you against the entire forum, perhaps you ought to look at what you're saying and see if either you're not getting your point across clearly to support your argument, or perhaps you're actually wrong in your thinking.

Whining: Complain in a feeble or petulant way.

No I don'€™t think I am Ag. I think I'€™m bringing a valid point to the table and perhaps you believe that by attacking me and not the argument as so many have done, it will cut me to the heart and I will be undone.

Not happening.

To get such a strong narrow answers to by question, yea I really started feeling this was the Alamo at first. And no, I'€™m pretty correct in my thinking.

First off, look at what official factions are. That is explained in the last sentence of FR1.

Now, what authority does a faction have? That's in FR2.

Thus, in the BAF example mentioned previously, if the BAF 1ic or 2ic was around, they could tell the indies not to engage to overbalance a combat.

However - canon RP also has the BAF hostile to the Mollies and the Corsairs both. So the official faction ships cannot order the BAF indies to assist the Mollies against the Corsairs if the indies don't want to do so.

By the same token, FR2 still requires that official factions allow indies to participate.
As far as an official faction being able to FR5 someone with their own ID ... the BHG|Core did that. Twice - and not just to one single ship, but to an entire group. Actually being able to do that is still listed in one of the examples, even.
You have to have darned good in-game and in-forum RP to do so, along with supporting screenshots. It's not something that can be done on a whim.

Anyway, your basic premise is incorrect.
With the exception of a couple of special factions - K|Hara, for example - the official faction does not 'own' the equipment. That's why and where you're in error. If they have an ID, they're just as much a part of the faction as you are - whether they're in the LN, the BAF, the BHG, or any other ID in the game. Your official faction may be the keeper of the lore as a representative of the faction ID - but you're not the entirity of the whole faction. Again, look back at FR2.

I understand everything you are saying. But, your statement reminds me of this fact based argument where everything is true right up to the conclusion which has nothing to do with my point. As a result, I can only presume you read -into- what I said and not -what- I said.

My point as nothing to do with how people think or how the strings must be pulled, but rather an adherence to their ID and the penalties and or benefits from that choice

Independents can pvp all they want. They can carry Faction/freelancer/pirate/circus IDs all they want. They merely need to act like an independent, a Pirate, a faction or a clown, take the nerf with a different ID and accept the pitfalls and benefits of the choice. Dear god, that'€™s all I'€™m saying.

Remember, -Independents-. Not established -factions- that go mad with -faction- tech we can all easily point out and say'€ look at them'€ and the hammer of Admin righteousness is sent against them.
I'€™m talking about -Independent- players who act -independently-, with the -faction- technology, with the -faction- Ships, with the -faction- equipment, with the -faction- ID to avoid the Nerf and have no ties to the -FACTION-.

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Sometimes, when all you want is to gain your freedom, you must be willing to risk it all.

[Veygaar]

Reports man, we gotta fill em out. Little by little, step by step, it makes Disco a better place...

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Veygaar for Admin Moderator 2013!!!

[Lunaphase]

Spire you need to keep in mind offical factions came AFTER the npc factions did. (well besides HF but thats a seperate can of worms.)

Furthermore, its entirely fair because nobody forced you to join an offical faction. Furthermore offical factions get more rights and privileges than indies do when it comes do dealing with irritating individuals.

Remember that independents make the community, not a facton with an "offical" tag.

Your trying to discriminate against those who simply dont want to submit to one individuals mindset or want to play the canon role of the faction rather than the player factions diplomacy or operation mode.

Again you have not provided any real reason to join a "offical" faction. furthermore this kind of attitude infact makes people NOT want to join, because nobody wants to hang with those who act like asses.

Think about it.

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[ryoken]

He is saying something much different anyway. He is saying that there would be better if the people act like they should act, he is saying that 6.9 would do more work for admins then limiting the non-generic IDs to official factions.

Will never happen. If it did? Disco would die.

If a player follows his IDs cannon RP there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it. If they RP they are an Exiled Hessien for example using hessien ship,and ID then fine if he RPs it well. He can then say he is not a hessien. Hell their is an Official faction thet went that way, and now have thier own ID.

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[RickJames]

You conveniently forgot the part where it says FREELANCER

Not Hessian, Corsair, Gallic, Rheinland Military, Kruger, IMG, etc.

Try again.

NO U!!!

[Adam_Spire]

Spire you need to keep in mind offical factions came AFTER the npc factions did. (well besides HF but thats a seperate can of worms.)

Furthermore, its entirely fair because nobody forced you to join an offical faction. Furthermore offical factions get more rights and privileges than indies do when it comes do dealing with irritating individuals.

Remember that independents make the community, not a facton with an "offical" tag.

Your trying to discriminate against those who simply dont want to submit to one individuals mindset or want to play the canon role of the faction rather than the player factions diplomacy or operation mode.

Again you have not provided any real reason to join a "offical" faction. furthermore this kind of attitude infact makes people NOT want to join, because nobody wants to hang with those who act like asses.

Think about it.

And you people STILL are missing the point. --YOU--- are avoiding the tech nerf --YOU-- dont want to be part of the faction. --YOU-- want to have all the benefits --YOU-- want no penalties. --YOU-- Think about it

Getting the faction ID --is-- a fantastic encouragement to join the Faction and remove the Nerf. Don't you understand that? But you then CHOOSE to be a working part of that faction and playing by its rules. If you want to be independent TAKE the NERF. If you play as an independent and keep the ID are dodging the very reason the nerf was put there in the first place.

Watch your language and maybe you should calm down.

Will never happen. If it did? Disco would die.

If a player follows his IDs cannon RP there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it. If they RP they are an Exiled Hessien for example using hessien ship,and ID then fine if he RPs it well. He can then say he is not a hessien. Hell their is an Official faction thet went that way, and now have thier own ID.

Disco will never die! (get it?)

As per your argument ryoken. If the exiled Hessians ARE A FACTION THAT HAS THEIR OWN ID, they are NOT independents!

If a '€œhessian'€ gunboat player gets kicked out of the Hessians then he should no longer HAVE A HESSIAN ID! This still leaves him with the IFF, ships, equipment and Freelancer/pirate ID that CLEARLY tells me, he'€™s got the mind of a Hessian, but he'€™s on his own and follows his own rules and I Roleplay with him accordingly. He takes the Nerf and either choose to make amends to the Hessians to be part of the Faction again, remove the Nerf, or join another faction or take the myriad of Independent tech that is out there.

Players want to have all the benefits and suffer not a single Consequence for their action because they want power overwhelming. They don'€™t want the nerf. They are avoiding, it.

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Sometimes, when all you want is to gain your freedom, you must be willing to risk it all.