CR: Kronos and the Zephyr

[Govedo13]

I guess the big miss-understanding here is the perception that smaller factions with Battleships should have their battleships preforming on the level of House ships.
This is wrong because they never preformed on that level- see the Arbeiter/Spyglass of 4.85 for example, it is bigger then house heavy caps, slower with 3 heavy slots and less secondary turrets. Spyglass had also 8m core as well in 4.85
I wont tell anything about the Hessian BS because well.. you know who balanced it together with the main user. Second really good ship in small faction hands is Dragon BS- somehow it landed on the better part of the balance.
Kronos clearly have Heavy Battleship size, compared with medium battleship agility it would be bad BS.I was not aware that it is that big, then Dane Request to have 2 docking bays and 200 more cargo is reasonable one.
I guess it have something to do with CR having perfect snubs gb and cruiser as well, factions with such perfect line tend to have one or two spoiled underpowered ships unless they are Hessians or RM or BD.
Thats why clear guideline about capitals and their balance and smaller factions who get what kind of cap must be done by the Devs because the Discovery balance is meh and this causes problems in community.
It is unfair that all players need to suffer the clear mistakes of few balance people that somehow forgot to make the same mistakes for their own factions, especially if we are talking about some ini file changes that could be made today and updated in the server tomorrow.
Indeed replacing it with Zephyr would solve it unless Zephyr gets underdog stats as well- what I expect from such deal.

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Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Dashiell]

I know what has been told to me before...

I pointed out that the Kronos is very much underpowered for its enormous size, which equals the size of heavy BS (see here), before. I was told it is a counter to the Sarissa. Now, I still find that "excuse" laughable. I also heard the old CR wished for a medium BS instead of the light and sadly quite weak Carrier, the Zephyr. Sadly the Kronos lacks even more ability to survive (and fight) against anything it is supposed to fight - except MAYBE the Sarissa, which is never used.

Now don't get me wrong, I actually like the Kronos. It looks and feels like a fat BS should be. Like a heavy BS. But it isn't. The low armor and low BB (compared to other BS) kills it. The weapon count and placement on the ship is quite good though, but that doesn't make up for the rest. Other medium BS are much smaller and can therefore evade incoming fire, the Kronos can't.

A medium BS is not unfitting for the CR. They operate in asteroid-filled areas and a heavy BS is just unfitting for their economical situation. "Lighter and agile" needs to be the motto for their succes. Overpowering the superior enemies is not an option. Overall though, due to that, the CR rather relies on snub attacks, a more guerilla-like warfare. For that they need a carrier to bring the snubs closer to the enemy, not a battleship which is meant to fight off the enemies rather directly.

As my new userpic, taken from the wiki 8| , suggests - I'm very much for the reimplementation of the Zephyr. Now as a real carrier. If you ask me, even though I like the Kronos looks and all that, you can kick that one out for the Zephyr. It makes way more sense in RP for the CR to rely on a carrier plus their cruisers and snubs. Maybe even readd the Argus - but that's a different story.

The Zephyr looked better than the Kronos, and, even though it wasn't very good, still performed better under the circumstances the CR is. Not to mention what has already been mentioned above: it makes more sense for the faction and its RP.

So, yes, please, return the Zephyr. Give it a little buff from how it has been before - more armor for example - since it is quite big, make it a proper carrier with docking module slots. And if you ask me, replace the Kronos with the Zephyr again. That's my opinion about the matter.

(sadly I didn't add the Zephyr on the pic above ...)

Pretty much my exact thoughts.

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[TLI-Inferno]

The Kronos is the size of a heavy battleship, with the stats of a medium battleship. Basically: Take any medium battleship. Remove its ability to dodge, and watch it blow up every time it tries to fight anything. That's the Kronos right now.

Firstly, I don't think a heavy bs really suits the colonials. But I do have one idea that could quickly rebalance the Kronos, as well as make it fit in better with colonial ships. Simply scale it down a little bit, until its size is proportional to its stats in comparison to other battleships with similar stats.

Or replace it with Zephyr; a small battleship fits colonials pretty well. And, while most people in light battleships are toast, small battleships still have two things going for them: They're easier to work with in group fights, and in the hands of a very skilled pilot they can use their small size to dodge most of an enemy's shots.

[Syrus]

I guess the big miss-understanding here is the perception that smaller factions with Battleships should have their battleships preforming on the level of House ships.
This is wrong because they never preformed on that level- see the Arbeiter/Spyglass of 4.85 for example, it is bigger then house heavy caps, slower with 3 heavy slots and less secondary turrets. Spyglass had also 8m core as well in 4.85
I wont tell anything about the Hessian BS because well.. you know who balanced it together with the main user. Second really good ship in small faction hands is Dragon BS- somehow it landed on the better part of the balance.
Kronos clearly have Heavy Battleship size, compared with medium battleship agility it would be bad BS.I was not aware that it is that big, then Dane Request to have 2 docking bays and 200 more cargo is reasonable one.

I can't say much about the Arbiter from "own experience", since I haven't flown it in battle. From what I saw, though, it is of extreme size - should have included it in the picture I linked, it'd probably be the longest by far - but now it actually has a fitting powercore for that size as well as some decent armor. It's not a very good battleship, but at least it's not too bad. From what I saw I'd put it at the lower end of "decent". But - it's hard to tell.

Other BS for smaller factions - I'd like to include Outcasts and Corsairs as well, as they are seen as way bigger than they are actually supposed to be. What about the Order and their Osiris? Best battleship till .86. Legate got power and armor for its size, turns rather fast as well, gets stuck in asteroids though. Sarissa - ok, you got me there. But the Ranseur was quite a monster in .85 with 16 guns forward and extremly good arcs while not being too big and being able to sneak through asteroid fields. The new Ranseur isn't anywhere near that good, but it still doesn't suck. Council? Eh. 6 Class 10 all-rounder.
Zoner Aquillion? Well, it's a carrier. Zoner ... Nephilim? Big, bigger ... Nephilim. Not a battleship. And as you already pointed out, the Hessian and Blood Dragon BS ended up on the "better part of the balancement scale". BHG BS? Well, it's not too big. Is it good? Seems low on armor. Still should be able to kite. Haven't flown it since .85 to be honest.

Overall, I wouldn't say that "small faction's BS have to be really weaker". What they shouldn't be, though, are ships which are supposed to overpower the enemy. That's why I see battleships unfitting for all non-house factions, actually - but that's another story. If they get BS, then they shouldn't have them on par with houses - in size and strength! But not in agility! A smaller faction would build smaller "BS", to use the advantages that gives them.

But heh, this can be talked about for ever - as I stated before. Zephyr, yes, but with more armor - Kronos, no.

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[Prysin]

The Outcasts or Corsairs are also no factions that would be able to do this, but they still have them, so what exactly is your point there Prysin?:P

we both know that CR cannot be compared to either of those... Both those factions have way higher population, more money, more resources avaliable to them..

Also, IRP, those factions only have like 2-3 BS class ships...

The colonials, they wanna have a small armada inRP... not gonna happen..

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DHC Discord

[Mao]

Prysin, your obvious biased behavior should keep you away from posting on this matter. This is a discussion about the balancing of a vessel, not about how big and wealthy the sniffers are. And if inRP, OCs and Sairs have only 2-3 ships, CR can also have 1 but field 50 like the OC indies do. And I'm not talking only about the factions or groups official or not.

That said, take my advice and go home.

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[Jeremy Hunter]

CR|RP's a single Kronos in service, with one under very, very slow construction.

We don't want a small armada of caps.

We just want our heavy hitter to not suck.

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May you ever walk in the Light, Shizune.

[Rommie]

Mates, the CR caps have always sucked. Well, the Battlestars didn't, but that's not the point. The point is that CR caps are not meant to be 'heavy hitters'. They're not meant to be the central item of a combat force. That's for the Nyxes and Pythos. It's always been like this, it's the basis through which we formed our entire shipline. Mediocre ships that require teamwork instead of 'one hit wonders', if you will.

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In space, nobody knows I'm a panda

[Charos]

Thanatos and Kronos are average/good caps. I've owned both while I was still playing and I was satisfied by them.

Kronos needs special handling and if you want to survive, make sure you have a CDer with you. You can't just toss that thing against other caps and expect to survive.

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Remember our fallen, we are the Legion.

[Yber]

Just a thought about the old CR/IMG BS.

What do you need firepower, hull or core for, if your opponent can't hit you? If a ship isn't made to charge on a dreadnought, then don't, FFS.

~Mako lover.

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inb4 Sirius gets renamed to XTF.