(03-02-2013, 02:02 PM)jammi Wrote: We won't introduce rules about maximum piracy demands, because if we put a non-context based maximum cap - it becomes the default demand.
"$30m demands get you sanctioned."
"Kay. 29m r dai."
We'll continue to use our judgement to decide which demands are abusive and designed to enable pirates to kill traders and nothing more. If you feel that was the case, submit a report - we may disagree though. There are lots of variables that affect the context.
If you introduced % of ship's value lost on death, pirates would have a real incentive to salvage what they can from the situation, and the trader would have a real incentive to pay up. You could let go of the "unreasonable demand" limitation.
Official factions could offer ship replacement programmes, giving players a real incentive to join.
In EVE (yep, my new favourite basis for comparison) you can be unlucky and have your ship destroyed and your pod with all your expensive implants ransomed - you have to trust the dude that just killed your ship with your money and hope he won't kill your pod/clone, but he is free to kill your clone AND keep your money if he should choose. Most ransomers are honourable though, because they need every bit of extra cash and understand that by not keeping their word, their reputation will be tarnished, and they won't be able to random any player who does background checks / knows who's who.
Sometimes order come from chaos (like EVE), and sometimes order leads to chaos (like here). Maybe I should apply for TAZ :-)
Like i posted in this thread the maximum amount should be dependent on the minimum value of the cargo. The game should at least auto-generate that value so the pirate knows how much he can ask for.
Demand is irrelevant when the issue is intent. Things like, flying into planets to avoid engagment, flying around a station model to avoid dying/docking, pirating under the shadow of West Point because you can avoid fatal amounts of weapons fire, gang warfare, killing newbs in Penn, OORP ship names, these are rule violations already in one form or another. Unfortunately a large percentage of the player base wants the game to be this way, some are higher-ups in the community's social order. Crack the whip or dont.
(03-02-2013, 12:07 PM)Croft Wrote: Personally I'd set the pirate ID to hostile with everything but zoners and junkers to reflect their independent nature and limit or remove cap ships from piracy.
Sure, the day they make Zoners and Freelancers hostile to everything "to reflect their independent nature" Cap ships pirating isn't a problem, you'd be far more screwed against two bombers, only difference is that you might have a chance of getting the feeling of success by knocking out their shields or something insignificant like that.
Taking my words out of context is a poor way to reflect your disagreements, you know full well the limitations of zoner and freelancer ID in regards to unlawful actions.
No matter what you face as a solo transport you are always outgunned having larger ships pirate you is an escalation of that and prime example of my own reluctance to play. There is a degree of hypocrisy in the way this is handled. Take House wars for example, if one side is being overwhelmed they complain bitterly and usually something is agreed upon to balance the majority of fights. The same thing happens to me in a transport, yet if I voice my complaint I get told to "use an escort, space is dangerous" and other versions of dismissal.
Very rarely do you see an agreement to show fairness to the trader, even the rules for making demands are incredibly vague "No excessive demands" what about "No demand may exceed 75% of the cargo's buy value" or a basis of piracy I normally see "Demands may not be determined by ship price" hell even "Pirates must vary their demands if their target is willing to haggle."
(03-02-2013, 12:55 PM)Anaximander Wrote: Besides, indie pirates aren't the problem - players that pirate in a negative or oorp way are. You'll find these players amongst junkers, corsairs, outcasts, rogues and so on too, its foolish to blame an ID and an IFF.
Perhaps you should read my post again, I will embolden the relevant section.
Croft Wrote:However I do come across those pesky indy pirates (untagged or just pirate ID'd) who simply refuse to accept any form of RP, they won't haggle or deal issuing the same "X mill or we'll open fire." Those kind of pirates are fine in moderation, space is dangerous after all but when you're facing the same thing constantly it simply isn't fun. Why log on when all I'm going to get is a glorified answering machine with guns?
Well honestly, since when has the game NOT been balanced towards traders? True, in the PVP arena, trade ships suck, and rightly so, but the truth is I can make a billion credits trading while watching a season of BSG, only casually looking at FL on the monitor because nothing pops up. And should I be unlucky / foolish enough to get caught by pirates, I just pay them the 2 million and keep on grinding. 2 million is peanuts for 99.9% of all traders in the grand scheme of things. There's little to no risk getting pirated, and furthermore you are covered by extreme care bear measures in the unlikely event that you should get caught. There's simply no risk, and without risk there aren't any challenges, and without challenges there's no fun.
Just because you play your trader as an autopilot drone does not mean it is the way it should be done. I'd go so far as describing your attitude towards the problem as elitist, you assume that all traders are like yourself with plenty of money. What consideration do you give to those just starting out? Those whose entire cargo run profit may be under 2 to 3 million? I've personally been pirated in an empty freighter for 3 million by people who refused to acknowledge that my ship cost less than that demand on multiple occasions.
This thread was created to find ways of improving the community decline, brushing off the first example of why someone no longer plays the game as "Foolish" speaks volumes.
(03-02-2013, 02:59 PM)Croft Wrote: brushing off the first example of why someone no longer plays the game as "Foolish" speaks volumes.
Well said.
Sometimes it seems like people run around with their fingers in their ears yelling NOT TRUEEE NOT TRUEE NOT TRUEEE.
Not saying that's the case , but some replies in this thread give that idea.
At least take another ones feedback serious, don't just stomp it down but consider it.
(03-02-2013, 02:59 PM)Croft Wrote: Just because you play your trader as an autopilot drone does not mean it is the way it should be done. I'd go so far as describing your attitude towards the problem as elitist, you assume that all traders are like yourself with plenty of money. What consideration do you give to those just starting out? Those whose entire cargo run profit may be under 2 to 3 million? I've personally been pirated in an empty freighter for 3 million by people who refused to acknowledge that my ship cost less than that demand on multiple occasions.
This thread was created to find ways of improving the community decline, brushing off the first example of why someone no longer plays the game as "Foolish" speaks volumes.
Now you should stop putting words in my mouth too
I never said I RP a drone of sorts, I merely stated that trading is dead-easy and it always was. Mind you, a newly started player in a trade ship only have a net worth of a couple of million credits for about an hour or two, after that the level of profit skyrockets. True, you find pirates that sometimes prey on those, just like you sometimes find lawfuls that prey on noob pirates. It's the name of the game, no need to cry about or point fingers at one group of Players/ID's and say "burn them with fire".
I never said you RP a drone, only that you trade on autopilot, as you said yourself.
Anaximander Wrote:True, in the PVP arena, trade ships suck, and rightly so, but the truth is I can make a billion credits trading while watching a season of BSG, only casually looking at FL on the monitor because nothing pops up.
No were did you say "I RP as a trader" only that you "make billions while watching BSG." As for putting words in your mouth, I will quote exactly what you have said:
Anaximander Wrote:Besides, indie pirates aren't the problem - players that pirate in a negative or oorp way are. You'll find these players amongst junkers, corsairs, outcasts, rogues and so on too, its foolish to blame an ID and an IFF.
Anaximander Wrote:Well honestly, since when has the game NOT been balanced towards traders? True, in the PVP arena, trade ships suck, and rightly so, but the truth is I can make a billion credits trading while watching a season of BSG, only casually looking at FL on the monitor because nothing pops up. And should I be unlucky / foolish enough to get caught by pirates, I just pay them the 2 million and keep on grinding. 2 million is peanuts for 99.9% of all traders in the grand scheme of things. There's little to no risk getting pirated, and furthermore you are covered by extreme care bear measures in the unlikely event that you should get caught. There's simply no risk, and without risk there aren't any challenges, and without challenges there's no fun.
Anaximander Wrote:It's the name of the game, no need to cry about or point fingers at one group of Players/ID's and say "burn them with fire".
That's two counts of me being "foolish" the first is quite direct, the second is implied and to top if off you tell me "not to cry" these are your exact words. A perfect example of my previous point, do you need further evidence of this issue?
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Cap ships pirating isn't a problem, you'd be far more screwed against two bombers, only difference is that you might have a chance of getting the 
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