Honestly, I'd love to see an end to this 'war' it's pointless, serves no purpose and just plain isn't fun. I'd love to see a peaceful resolution, both sides have tried but unless the ZA disbands their bases on the JHs in O-74 and stops farming Nomads, this isn't going to end, the Order especially are RP bound to be enemies with them as long as the ZA are farming Nomads. The factions against the ZA can't get the manpower to destroy their bases, and the ZA don't have enough players to oppose them so before the PoBs vanished there was just a boring stalemate. ZA waiting for those sieging their bases to get bored, and then jumping on their traders and haulers to re-supply the bases, it never ends!
I don't want to see the ZA bullied off the server, Discovery needs us players to work together to keep the community alive. I reckon the best solution is for the ZA to move their assets to a system which isn't already inhabited by an active Zoner faction and really deserves more activity like Omega 50, one of (imo) the most under-rated systems. I think at the heart of the ooRP issues in O-74 is that there were already several active factions in the system that obviously weren't too happy with a new faction coming in, blockading the systems JHs then claiming to be the rightful inhabitants, or claim to speak for the inhabitants of O-74. This is why the ZA can't claim to be the defenders, because some of the other active factions involved have been in O-74 a lot longer and are merely (inRP) defending their home.
If the ZA really want an end to war then I implore them to open a channel (inRP) and the very least try to offer a compromise with the other side. If it means them leaving O-74 then I'm more than willing to help in my indie trader with the moving of supplies and starting new bases somewhere else where their presence would not be an issue with already existing factions (if any are there) in the area.
While the ZA have brought this war on themselves, we shouldn't be trying to bully them off the server, but encourage them to integrate themselves with the community. This cannot be done however, as long as the ZA refuse to communicate with their enemies and refuse to admit that their attitude is the source of this war.
I've been in Order| for half a decade now (with 2 years off mind you) and I can assure the community that the Order would rather get on with other things then hang about O-74 all the time, we want an end to this too, we even tried a white peace when this was new, but with those two bases over the JHs a peace treaty just can't seem to work. I beg of the ZA to understand this, I doubt you enjoy being stuck on your PoBs half the time but if you work with Phoenix, and the Order then this war will end. I'd happily work as a liaison to lower tensions and discuss compromises with both sides.
(08-24-2013, 02:37 PM)El Danny Wrote: Honestly, I'd love to see an end to this 'war' it's pointless, serves no purpose and just plain isn't fun. I'd love to see a peaceful resolution, both sides have tried but unless the ZA disbands their bases on the JHs in O-74 and stops farming Nomads, this isn't going to end, the Order especially are RP bound to be enemies with them as long as the ZA are farming Nomads. The factions against the ZA can't get the manpower to destroy their bases, and the ZA don't have enough players to oppose them so before the PoBs vanished there was just a boring stalemate. ZA waiting for those sieging their bases to get bored, and then jumping on their traders and haulers to re-supply the bases, it never ends!
I don't want to see the ZA bullied off the server, Discovery needs us players to work together to keep the community alive. I reckon the best solution is for the ZA to move their assets to a system which isn't already inhabited by an active Zoner faction and really deserves more activity like Omega 50, one of (imo) the most under-rated systems. I think at the heart of the ooRP issues in O-74 is that there were already several active factions in the system that obviously weren't too happy with a new faction coming in, blockading the systems JHs then claiming to be the rightful inhabitants, or claim to speak for the inhabitants of O-74. This is why the ZA can't claim to be the defenders, because some of the other active factions involved have been in O-74 a lot longer and are merely (inRP) defending their home.
If the ZA really want an end to war then I implore them to open a channel (inRP) and the very least try to offer a compromise with the other side. If it means them leaving O-74 then I'm more than willing to help in my indie trader with the moving of supplies and starting new bases somewhere else where their presence would not be an issue with already existing factions (if any are there) in the area.
While the ZA have brought this war on themselves, we shouldn't be trying to bully them off the server, but encourage them to integrate themselves with the community. This cannot be done however, as long as the ZA refuse to communicate with their enemies and refuse to admit that their attitude is the source of this war.
I've been in Order| for half a decade now (with 2 years off mind you) and I can assure the community that the Order would rather get on with other things then hang about O-74 all the time, we want an end to this too, we even tried a white peace when this was new, but with those two bases over the JHs a peace treaty just can't seem to work. I beg of the ZA to understand this, I doubt you enjoy being stuck on your PoBs half the time but if you work with Phoenix, and the Order then this war will end. I'd happily work as a liaison to lower tensions and discuss compromises with both sides.
Main problem is theres little locations for the ZA to build to say and technically speaking Omicron 74 WAS the only open system for zoner PoB's
And this is just what I see and next time it wont happen
Over systems:
Baffin is under TAZ control fully
Omicron Delta is war zone
the Taus are under the control of IMG/Outcasts/GRN/Freelancer factions (Including K'Hara I guess)
Zeta is Under Order control
Kappa is mostly just a highway
Order/Corsairs/BHGC destroy bases they find in Lost (unless OK'ed by them)
Theta is under Phoenix control (I think, maybe im wrong?) but also Corsair control partly
The Sigmas are Waring fields between the Outcast and Corsairs
The Omegas are not open to say the least.
Omega 50 is under OSI/SCRA control, any base no OK'ed by both factions is destroyed
Omega 49 is OSI/TAZ space
Omega 47 is a war field between the RHA and the Corsairs
Most of the other omegas are owned as well
So really O-74 was the only open system for them to hold down and...well in terms colonize
Over factions:
Liberty is angered at the ZA
I think Kusari was partly at one point but forgot why...
Rheinland was mad only due part of the stations which were fixed yes
Bretoina is sitting in the background wondering whats going on
Gallia just stayed out of it
I think at one point the Outcasts said they'd stay out of it to
The corsairs played parts out in the war and kept a cool head over all
Player factions:
Phoenix, ok lets be serious, some of the anger became RP, some of it was RP anger. No one was perfect about this
OSI: stayed out of it for the most part save the parts where the Order/OSI stuff happened
TAZ: Supported the Order, never understood what set them off in the first place really
SolarR: Supported the order again, ill say it that we did righto
TBH (Not sure if this is the tag right...): Supported the ending of the war at least
Bentiez: were here a few times, thankfully they also wanted the war over
ECG: Well we all know what happened here but it was solved in the end atleast
AI's: OK so the AI's were mostly pissed about the ZA and what happened in the past, we all know what happened with the AI's so that's the past now.
Others (Zoners): 50/50 of the indies were split between the two factions due to this war that happened.
Major Factions taking part:
Order: Main aggressors and protecters of the Omicrons (and sometimes other places. Most of this was RP anger and other wise was due to the fact the Order saw the ZA as a threat to their operations and laws on nomadic research and remains. Most of the fighting then increased when the Order was attacked by ZA bases and forces which didn't help the case. To push insult to injury the endless taunting of the forces in 74 didn't help the case either.
ZA: Right no one is perfect of a faction and when push came to shove the ZA held their ground and their RP right, I read over their posts and decided to give them the OK on their forum RP history and what not but ingame RP was not the best. Over all the ZA were like many new factions, at first your not liked but in the end people start seeing the better side of things and give them a chance. Sure not many people like the ZA but when it came to it the ZA were there, responding, active and over all ready and willing.
Wars:
Zoner war 1: Began between Phoenix, AI's, A few Runners and the ZA over base rights and locking down the system, the ZA held their ground but also didnt show much RP when requested, peacetalks were made but ultimately failed in the end.
Omicon war 1: Began with the AI's retaliating against the ZA, ZA responded by defending their home. in that turn the AI's got back up from Zoner Indies, Phoenix, Runners, TAZ, and a few indy Order players. This war ended with the agreement between the AI's and ZA which in the end once again failed.
Order war 1: Began with the Order discovering (maybe) nomadic remains on the ZA bases which made the Order move in to check, find them and remove them. when the ZA refused to give them up ultimately the order then responded with brute force and aggression which calmed over time as the ZA agreed to not extend beyond Zeta and into Order space as well not interfere with Order operations.
Order war 2: Began when the ZA were discovered in the Omicron nomadic systems, Alaska and beyond, this made the Order rather angered at the ZA to the point where the Order leader golly brought out the order flagship (well his flagship atleast) to attack the ZA with the Order primary fleet and reinforcements from the 141st. The ZA responded by their own force trying to prevent the order fleet from moving in and destroying their bases. Seeing the ZA attacking the order, this angered numbers Zoner factions and indies and pulled them into the war to attack the ZA forces which also started the ECG attacks on the zoners and order. this fourth war did not end as the bases vanished from the game (due to reasons we know)
This is what i saw anyways so a lot of information might be wrong.
Nice to see so many people taking an interest in these peace talks...
But I would just like to point out that Mr Sabre from the TAZ group did say and I quote "that the bases and there weapon platforms are not the issue here" and I tend to agree with him on this matter....
when the bases return I have said that I will be pulling the weapon platforms back to cover the stations and returning the
station/s to defense mode Zero which is a nuetral non hostile stance.
My problem is that if we remove the bases or there weapon platforms the order will just steam roll the place killing
all our civilians etc...
This being said look at this transmission I pick up earlyer today...
If the order claim to not have any interest in taking control of the omicron 74 system then why make all these
demands:- http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=103810
First off the Omicron 74 system belongs to the zoners.
Second there for they have no right to make any demands.
IE removing all weapon platforms,handing over station administration,destroying factorys.
All this and more coming from someone who claims not to want or have any interest in being a dictator of a system
That doesn't even come under there durastiction.
The main reason for the orders hatred of us was the nomad remains and research but we have now put a project together and have successfully managed to produce a viable alternative to nomad remains. http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=103741
What with the statement I made about withdrawing the weapon system I should think that would be enough
to convince the order that were not a hostile threat to anyone anymore.
But after reading his list of demands its clear to me now that hes lying through his teeth and just want to secretly
take over the entire universe one sector/system at a time....
I hereby make a call out to all zoners lets stop fighting each other.
We need to unite and see who is truly to architect of war here...
We the ZA may not of been the Mr perfect and we have taken full responsibility for all of our actions here.
By us agreeing to pull back and deactivate our stations to defense modes only and returning our stations back to zoner iff designations.
We are in affect now not hostile to anyone who wishs to step foot into 0-74...
We only wish to protect the people.
But we need to pull it together my zoner brother/s.
NO more nit picking.
We need to look towards the future before this situation just tears use all apart.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: My problem is that if we remove the bases or there weapon platforms the order will just steam roll the place killing
all our civilians etc...
Of all the things said on these forums.
My mind is blown.
Could you please explain your reasoning behind this?
Food for thought:
What would have happened differently had these demands come from the Corsair Empire (who is just as aware of the Nomad threat and just as non-tolerant of Nomadic research in the wrong hands)?
I'll tell you what, total anarchy. Every Zoner, their mother, mother in law, mother in laws dog, mother in laws dog's vetrinarian's cousin's hairdresser's aunt would have been up in arms, fighting for peac, justic, and fredom.
But beacuse it is the Order on their white stallion....nothing.
The complicit silence in which two of the official faction, and the tactic support of a third official, in these events is to me the anti-thesis of everything you should be to the Zoner Alliance.
I understand the dificulty of having independents causing a muck (oh god I really do), but as long as they act in good faith it a right and responsibility of your factions to ensure proper guardianship of all the Zoners.
gone four years, first day back: Zoners still getting shot in Theta :|
(08-23-2013, 01:31 AM)Sabre Wrote: The bases and even the turrets are no problem, except the placement. everybody would be happy if the bases were moved 5 or 6 k away from the holes. you can have your bases, and people can move freely through the system.
To correct Mow's quote of me, what i said is above. the bases and turrets are no problem if they are moved 5-6k away from the JHs.
i think that if that is done and a few other minor things, it will eliminate any reason for conflict between the ZA and AI/Other Zoners.
The order is another matter.
For once i agree with Mow, Omicron's demands are a bit over the top and will probably just lead to more fighting. We are (slowly) getting somewhere in this thread, so why spoil it.
In my previous post, i made many reasonable suggestions for stopping all this. I think if we separate the reasons the order are angry with ZA for and the reasons AI and other Zoners are angry with ZA for, we may get somewhere.
So Mow, if you want to get the issues with AI and the other zoner groups sorted shoot me a PM. as for the order, cant help you there with mad golly.
Golanski does not want to take over the universe UK1. He is asking this as the Zoner Alliance have a track record or making it neutral, and as soon as they do something that gets them in trouble (be it minor or major), thay lock down the system. Would you really be so trusting of people that do that?
That's just trying to explain Golly. I do think however that he is too harsh here. To tone it down a little wild be better, but inRp, golly is within his rights to be making those demands after such a long time of fighting... I dunno, it's what you think. But remember he's not some evil genius out to take over the universe. Admins wouldn't allow it, so why even try. It's not even Orders goal.
Anyways. Please take into account what I have said, and El Danny's post about perhaps moving to another independent system that's actually more "quiet" than 74 in terms of people in "control", this may be a good idea. I think many would be willing to help you
Move supplies to a system you can freely lay claim to, but make sure you choose that system wisely. Ask around, see where you can move to with no problems breathing down your neck. Rest assured that Phoenix and OSI will NOT let the evil Golly take over.
A couple of things to think on there. I look forward to hearing what you think on that.
In my opinion re-uniting our zoner brothers should be of the most important of tasks.
Our allies and fows will have to take a back set for now I'm afraid.
One step at a time I think...
A wise person once said that you can't please everyone all at the same time.
I'd like to start the first big step in the right direction.
But currently have my hands tied and can't pull back our defense systems until the POB are fully restored back to full
operating status....
As for moving the bases I'm not really sure that's a good idea but It's not a point blank no.
As for relocating this is a very large task and we have already made O-74 system our home.
Up routing so many family's and under taking such a large re-construction else where I'm not to sure weather its a viable option.
Due to the war,casualty's and looses.
Plus also as someone else did point out no matter where we go someones noise is surely gonna be put out of joint and complain....
But I'll take all these points into consideration.
(08-24-2013, 07:32 PM)Shizune Wrote: Main problem is theres little locations for the ZA to build to say and technically speaking Omicron 74 WAS the only open system for zoner PoB's
And this is just what I see and next time it wont happen
Over systems:
Baffin is under TAZ control fully
Omicron Delta is war zone
the Taus are under the control of IMG/Outcasts/GRN/Freelancer factions (Including K'Hara I guess)
Zeta is Under Order control
Kappa is mostly just a highway
Order/Corsairs/BHGC destroy bases they find in Lost (unless OK'ed by them)
Theta is under Phoenix control (I think, maybe im wrong?) but also Corsair control partly
The Sigmas are Waring fields between the Outcast and Corsairs
The Omegas are not open to say the least.
Omega 50 is under OSI/SCRA control, any base no OK'ed by both factions is destroyed
Omega 49 is OSI/TAZ space
Omega 47 is a war field between the RHA and the Corsairs
Most of the other omegas are owned as well
I agree with most of your post, my one issue is here where to my knowledge, Phoenix already controlled 0-74. On top of that there are ways to get around systems already claimed by other factions, just ask permission. As long as your RP is good, and you're not getting in the way of other factions present and maybe offer a little something in return I can't imagine many factions saying no.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: My problem is that if we remove the bases or there weapon platforms the order will just steam roll the place killing
all our civilians etc...
Can you please explain this? That's a rather big allegation right there.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: This being said look at this transmission I pick up earlyer today...
If the order claim to not have any interest in taking control of the omicron 74 system then why make all these
demands:- http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=103810
Because every other time peace has been restored, war has broken out again, these are restraints he wishes to put on you to make sure this peace would last. On top of that the system belonged to, and was regularly used by Zoner groups before you moved in and claimed it as your own.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: First off the Omicron 74 system belongs to the zoners.
1. Because you bring this attidude into your RP, it seems most people only consider you Zoners in terms of your ID. Your RP is as far away from actual Zoner RP as your ID will allow.
2. As I pointed out, the other Zoner groups that have been in O-74 before don't want the ZA around considering your actions, and your attitude.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: Second there for they have no right to make any demands.
IE removing all weapon platforms,handing over station administration,destroying factorys.
This is how war works.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: All this and more coming from someone who claims not to want or have any interest in being a dictator of a system
That doesn't even come under there durastiction.
The Order are supporting their allies, and the Order regularly use O-74 for supply stops and a route too and from the Omegas because they only other way is though Gamma.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: The main reason for the orders hatred of us was the nomad remains and research but we have now put a project together and have successfully managed to produce a viable alternative to nomad remains. http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread.php?tid=103741
We all know that there's no way that could work because Cloaks need Nomad remains to be constructed.
(08-25-2013, 06:57 AM)UK1 Wrote: What with the statement I made about withdrawing the weapon system I should think that would be enough
to convince the order that were not a hostile threat to anyone anymore.
But after reading his list of demands its clear to me now that hes lying through his teeth and just want to secretly
take over the entire universe one sector/system at a time....
The Order do not want control of O-74, want they want is the end of the ZAs nomad farming and the ZA to return control of the system to Zoners who inhabited that system before you did, because they worked with The Order and everyone got a long just fine.