Question about Liberty Navy rights

[rainth345]

This discussion started because the [LN] does not let indies RP in what ever manner suits them (not even in the canon LN RP way), but tries to force them to RP in the way that the [LN] want, which is to only fulfill the canon LN RP if the pirate is a guy that they don’t like, and do OORP motivated RP just to make sure that the player that is more skilled in PvP wins, and not the player who thinks tactically and plays according to the canon RP.

Let me correct you by changing the 'does not let indies RP' phrase to 'does not let indies shoot BIG SHINY RED TARGET' line.

I already explained to you how Morse interfered with me and not the other way round (and how the [LN] commonly interferes with other indy’S RP), but you chose to ignore it and just repeat your empty phrases, pretending that we were trying to make navies behave in a certain way. I never asked that [LN] attack pirates if they don’t want to. I asked that they stop indy navy from RPing the way they want, in particular because they RP of the indy navy is much more logical than the baloney that the [LN] cough up to try to make them change the way they RP.

Yeah, Morse interfered with you... WANTING to shoot the BIG RED SHINY TARGET PIRATE SHIP.

I think there is a very clear an necessary point in this thread, and its that we talk about how the [LN] and indy navy get along, and if we are on the same page when it comes to the rules, and on what is fair, and on what is bad behavior. It was necessary to talk about these things because as you can see in the diverse opinions that surfaced in this thread, there seems to be large disagreement on all of this. Members of the [LN], and you too, talked about the necessity of fairness and upholding of RP standards by the [LN]. But when I ask you to elaborate and look at the events as they happened, you ignored what I said, ignored my question on how you think you are upholding OORP standards and what those are, you just repeat the same phrases and say no more discussion.

If the [LN] ignored your statements, then they wouldn't have replied to what you've said. Nor would they have made counter-arguments to your arguments. And honestly, there seems only one disagreement on all of this, and that is from you.

The [LN] RPs that all of them are the superiors of all navy indies, and tells this to indy navies IRP, although there is no basis for this in the server rules or in the IRP laws they wrote down. They know that this will cause friction with the indy navies who know those rules and laws, but don’t see a problem in the weird RP that is created this way, a RP which is that basically the navy is a bunch of people who claim they have higher rank and give orders and the other party says “nuh-uh” and ignores them.

I'm not quite sure you get what roleplaying means.... e.g. Playing a role/character? A fictional one?

And knowing the rules and laws is just half of 'UNDERSTANDING' them.... Sure you can memorize those rules and laws... but it is VERY DIFFERENT from INTERPRETING THEM.....

On the other hand, some indy navies will get fooled into thinking that they really have to do everything the [LN] says although really don’t have to, which is what the [LN] really wants. The orders that the [LN] gives to these indies are mainly intended to help unlawfuls in fights, which the [LN] claims to be intended to promote “fairness”. This fairness consists of breaking canon navy RP to make sure that the more skilled player wins the fight, which basically leaves new players without a chance in hell against the PvP pros who are hunting for blue messages.

"Fair play, a level head and consideration for others are paramount. The rules are not a sword or shield to be used for or against someone, but to ensure that the server environment has structure and allows everyone to have fun. Know them and understand them."

If the [LN] asks you not to fire on a BIG RED SHINY TARGET PIRATE SHIP ALREADY UNDER FIRE FROM 12321789 LN ships, he/she is promoting fairplay/fairness which is in accordance with the rules.

Can you, please, explain to me how this 'non-canon' navy RP is making sure that the "skilled" player wins the fight?

The fact that navy RP is broken, hatred between [LN] and indies is sown, and that its not really fair to force a noob to get blown up by a pro without a chance is outweighed by the joy that the pros get from the blue message, according to the [LN].

Yeah forcing... sure. I can see how the [LN] forces you to get blown up by a pro.

Furthermore, the [LN] like to stop indies from attacking pirates, claiming that its for the sake of “RP”, when this “RP” consists of parading their “I’m a criminal” IFF and ID in front of law enforcement, exchanging friendly chit chat with [LN] in front of everybody, and then having the [LN] order the evil and stupid indies to not do anything against the pirate, simply because the [LN] like to RP being the superiors over others, without giving any sensible reason why the pirate should not be arrested or neutralized.

Know the phrase... "Innocent until proven guilty"? I guess not.... A ship having a "red"/"I'm a criminal" IFF doesn't automatically mean that the pirate should be arrested or neutralized.

If all of us here, in Disco, were to shoot/neutralized every "red" IFFed ship we see, then we're no better than the NPCs.... which is exactly what they do. And this thought completely erases the whole magic about ROLEPLAY.

All of this is justified by the official faction by “If we wanna RP our navy characters as being illogical non-canon-RP-conforming control freaks who help pirates and claim to have higher rank although they don’t we are free to do so because its RP”, while at the same time justifying their faction rights through the keeping of LN lore and RP.

I think we have already established that. It seems you are repeating every argument you have just already said against every new argument brought out.

They also justify themselves by pointing out how bad and unfair the world is, and how the nice people don’t gain the power that the [LN] wants for itself anyway. And if someone tries to talk about the way they do things, they don’t need to listen unless the person has become some sort of faction leader anyway, or unless the admins intervene, which they know they wont, based on the experience that their [LN] faction leaders had when they were admins at the same time.

I think you need to take a look at the [LN]'s feedback thread.... to see how they... "don't listen" to people who try to talk about the way they do things.

Well, I’ll probably never become one of those here, and if the admins wanted to say anything about this they probably would have already (and the ex-admin faction leader wouldn’t be so sure that they wont say anything against the navy anyway). So you wont listen, but let me give you my opinion anyway.

Just by reading your posts... I couldn't imagine how you would become an admin...

The official [LN] faction should stop RPing all of their members as ranking above independent navy players, and should stop giving them orders that go against non-canon RP. They should stop adopting a bossy, arrogant, and contemptful attitude towards independent players who act according to navy RP.

I think we have already established that. It seems you are repeating every argument you have just already said against every new argument brought out.

and stop condemning players who also shoot and don’t just talk when it comes to fulfilling their faction’s RP.

Shooting and not talking is against Rules 0.0 and 5.2. And this is not considered ROLEPLAY.

They should stop restricting their recruitment to people who are willing to skype and answer all their questions about OORP motivated RP to their liking.
Instead the official [LN] faction should only attempt to give orders to indies if they are first or seond in command. The rest treat indies on an eye to eye level and avoid giving them any sort of orders.

There would be no concrete coordination without skype.....

If the 1iC or 2iC were absent and all people in a fleet were equal, then who would lead? Who would coordinate?

The [LN] should invite any player who wants to play as navy into their ranks, especially the new and inexperienced ones.

I think they invite anyone who wants to play as a Navy into their ranks, it's just that you need to answer some "questionnaire" of sorts that some do not pass.

Think of it as a "entrance" examination... I'm sure all official factions have that. Correct me if I'm wrong on this.

The recruits can have all the indy LN ships they want, but the [LN] should make it more fun for them to work as a team with snubs. Positive incentives, not punishment through OORP “stand down and go die” RP.

If the [LN] recruit can have all the indy LN ships they want, that wouldn't follow logical roleplay at all.... An ensign cannot fly a battleship. Just like inRL, that a sailor does not command a destroyer.

And I don't think the [LN] tells the recruit to just "stand down and die".

The [LN] just need one non recruit/ensign guy online to lead a squad of 4 people, teach them how to act. Hopefully even activity woes will become a thing of the past. They will be able to counter RNC attacks better. Right now even the indy bunch of RNC are better organized and more capable than the [LN].

I don't think the [LN] have any activity woes.

As for the matter of RNC being better, that is changing....

Also stop telling yourself that if someone says something you dont like, its a vendetta against your person. That person may be helping you more than you realize.

Which is more than I could the same to you regarding what the other people have told you.

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[Sarawr!?]

Pretty much what Rainth said.

There isn't a single faction on this server that doesn't use Skype to coordinate it's efforts and in game actions.

The [LN] -does- invite new players to join, without restriction.

So long as an applicant is able to pass the questionnaire and write up a pretty damn basic bio/application, they'll generally be allowed to join up.

And yes, an [LN] member is allowed to have indie ships, even battleships, carriers, or whatever they want, as long as they're kept separate from their [LN] character.

As for LN v RNC stuff, in order for things to go better, indies and the [LN] need to coordinate better (Which is something we've been trying to facilitate in recent months), if cooperation improves, then we'll start to see more "Wins".

Then again, not everyone cares about fighting off every RNC raid that ever happens.

Ah and no, we certainly don't have any activity woes. We may not all fly at the same time, but we do fly.

ANYWAY,

If you have a problem with the way an [LN] Officer is doing their "Job" inRP, the best possible thing you could do, and something that I think would serve to improve the atmosphere of the server would be to make an inRP message to the Liberty Navy's High Command, and address the issue, so that if that LN Officer actually did something "Inappropriate" (As a character) he'd face inRP repercussions for his actions.

What you shouldn't do, is well, this.

A big old thread targeted at an entire faction that continues to drag on and on no matter what gets said.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[belarusich]

LN questionnaire is hard for new players.

P.S. RNC are not so organized without those-who-cant-be-called

[Sarawr!?]

It isn't -that- hard, especially not since we finally fixed our faction information page(s), and all of the information asked for in that questionnaire can be easily located with a little digging. (Which shows effort.)

Applicants aren't required to get every single question right. What we look for in new applicants is a basic understanding of server rules, and a basic ability to roleplay, or an interest in learning to do so.

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[LN] Recruitment | Rachel Baker Bio

[Manticore]

LN questionnaire is hard for new players.

I'd disagree. I completed it and passed it on my first day on Disco. Just takes a little research and understanding of the server rules and laws of Liberty.

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[Rodent]

The [LN] is an elitist faction full of people who enjoy dominating indies and pressing their powers over them. It's a real kicker man, you should join, we'll have good times. We also have great taste in music (unless it's Lyth in which case rap is bad.) I am part of the [LN] so every word coming from my mouth may be taken as fact and you shall not argue with the truth.

[Reid]

The [LN] is an elitist faction full of people who enjoy dominating indies and pressing their powers over them. It's a real kicker man, you should join, we'll have good times. We also have great taste in music (unless it's Lyth in which case rap is bad.) I am part of the [LN] so every word coming from my mouth may be taken as fact and you shall not argue with the truth.

He's not a high enough rank, don't believe a word he says

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[Rodent]

The [LN] is an elitist faction full of people who enjoy dominating indies and pressing their powers over them. It's a real kicker man, you should join, we'll have good times. We also have great taste in music (unless it's Lyth in which case rap is bad.) I am part of the [LN] so every word coming from my mouth may be taken as fact and you shall not argue with the truth.

He's not a high enough rank, don't believe a word he says

Oh, I forgot to mention that there's a level of elitism within the elitist faction that is the [LN]. You're seeing it at work right here. I'm sure there's an inception joke to be made there but I won't go into it.

[Lythrilux]

The [LN] is an elitist faction full of people who enjoy dominating indies and pressing their powers over them. It's a real kicker man, you should join, we'll have good times. We also have great taste in music (unless it's Lyth in which case rap is bad.) I am part of the [LN] so every word coming from my mouth may be taken as fact and you shall not argue with the truth.

MY RAP IS NOT BAD

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[Rodent]

The [LN] is an elitist faction full of people who enjoy dominating indies and pressing their powers over them. It's a real kicker man, you should join, we'll have good times. We also have great taste in music (unless it's Lyth in which case rap is bad.) I am part of the [LN] so every word coming from my mouth may be taken as fact and you shall not argue with the truth.

MY RAP IS NOT BAD

It's too mainstream man. Don't you remember that we have to fit the [LN] by listening exclusively to hipster, unknown stuff? And then be snarky about it?