The player factions in question will adapt their internal rules to the new environment, to your liking or not. If their behaviour starts to become what's deemed harming server gameplay, then steps from official side will be taken. If their behaviour does not warrant official involvement, then all you can do is to adapt your behaviour towards theirs.
You've mentioned your concern, not much more you can do.
Exactly how many players are still on Discovery as opposed to say, one year ago? There were 66 factions then. How many are there now? An amazing 4.87 was rolled out, but what did it do for overall numbers? Where do you see the server being one year from now?
Any decision, ANY decision, that adversely affects players must be reviewed and changed. You cannot AFFORD “We will wait a few months and see.” That is like racing the Titanic through an ice field at night to quickly get out of harm’s way. If anyone gets sufficiently, I think the new term is butthurt, over some inane Admin decision they will LEAVE. How many have already left in just the past month?
Is this how you wish this server to be? Anyone can make a mistake, even Admins. What they cannot do is sit on their fundaments while players are lost to the server due to Admin bad decisions. Right now if even ONE player is lost due to “Infinite Cloak” abuse that is one player the server cannot afford to lose.
To give one group unfair advantage over all groups is WRONG. There is no “player’s good intentions in use of the infinite cloak”. It is WRONG. Tell me if no Admin was in the Wilde they would have gotten this gift anyway. The Admins have made a mistake. Please correct your mistake.
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Iseijin doesn't have an Admin. They got the cloaks. K'Hara have cloaks. Independent Nomads have cloaks. And yes, Wilde have cloaks.
If one of those groups genuinely abuses their new toys, then I'd argue they should be taken away from that specific group. This is why Iseijin and K'Hara have internal rules against, for example, typing local or system chat messages while cloaked, or bumping players around. I would argue even the all-time favourite "uncloak on your enemy, type a quick notice and engage" should be used with care - even though human cloaks can do the exact same (and they can type the engagement notice BEFORE uncloaking..).
Keep in mind that snubcraft with these cloaks are extremely vulnerable to missiles. If you're paying attention to the game so that they can't catch you off-guard, and you have a missile, they will be very much dead.
Unlike human cloaks, it's not very viable to run away with them. Thirty seconds is a fairly long time to notice them cloaking. Not to mention that being shieldless and countermeasure-less against missiles is nothing short of suicidal.
The conspir[A]cy theories are completely unnecessary.
While I generally don't post on threads like this, the tone of this one is a little rough. I'm completely in favor of the new cloaking system because it adds something new and unique to the game. With every update, new toys make new interests and people try new things - one of the qualities that I really enjoy about Disco. When something new is introduced, there is always potential for abuse, and it should be handled appropriately based on actual evidence of that misuse, not forum or game hate spew. It's not just a Disco issue - you'll have problems like this in any game that's constantly updating, changing, and progressing.
For the general comments about abuse and server population - if one or two deaths chase a member off, there's not much we can do about it. It's a space sim. A shooting space sim. Deaths happen. What interests me most is how people respond to those deaths, and if it's all rage and unfairness, I don't know if we really want those people around anyways. It's a game, and I want to play with people who contribute and have fun.
I like Disco. I like the people I've met, I like the fun I have in-game, and I've enjoyed getting together with groups that understand RP and add to the server. Some people or groups don't do that, but that's life. So I'll keep enjoying what's here while it's here and appreciate what we have.
And...
The conspir[A]cy theories are completely unnecessary.
(11-21-2013, 04:14 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: Exactly how many players are still on Discovery as opposed to say, one year ago? There were 66 factions then. How many are there now? An amazing 4.87 was rolled out, but what did it do for overall numbers? Where do you see the server being one year from now?
I'm seeing natural aging of a mod made for a ten year old game that is being slowly exhausted by technical limitations of a closed-source engine. As for a number of factions, while you seem rolling in every unofficial or semblance of a 'faction tag' into that number, many come and go. Most don't get anywhere, plenty die after initial interest surge and quickly fade into obscurity as the novelty factor wears off. Again, this is a fairly natural process and it can be observed at any time, driven by temporary interests that don't stand the test of time. There are newer games in the genre looming over the horizon, built on newer engines too, and hopefully they'll get released too someday. Again, it's the way things are. It's the understanding that things past beyond their expiration period still are going to expire someday anyway. I do not know what will happen to Discovery in two-three years. I only know the content I'm making right now and looking forward to seeing it released in a month or two. But years ahead... who knows? Time will tell.
(11-21-2013, 04:14 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: Any decision, ANY decision, that adversely affects players must be reviewed and changed. You cannot AFFORD “We will wait a few months and see.” That is like racing the Titanic through an ice field at night to quickly get out of harm’s way. If anyone gets sufficiently, I think the new term is butthurt, over some inane Admin decision they will LEAVE. How many have already left in just the past month?
I think we can afford a few months to see. It had been the same with any addition made into the mod, and trust me - it has seen a number of major changes that did put everything upside down. Player bases, cloaks, public nomad ID, a whole new house with its own subfactions, shiplines, storylines and so on. You know it's not adding things that kills the mod, it's NOT adding things that creeps decay and stagnates the mod. If you're too concerned about at least anyone who might get butthurt then nothing ever will happen at all. Worse and hillariously yet such panic-switch attitude would have no result at all - because someone will certainly get butthurt about something, it's just a nature of some folk - their way of trying to get attention to their persona without actually making anything themselves but pointing fingers at others and screaming bloody murder.
(11-21-2013, 04:14 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: Is this how you wish this server to be? Anyone can make a mistake, even Admins. What they cannot do is sit on their fundaments while players are lost to the server due to Admin bad decisions. Right now if even ONE player is lost due to “Infinite Cloak” abuse that is one player the server cannot afford to lose.
Wow, talk about overreaction, mate. Why, thank you for illustrating my previous post! Because it's the exact type of response I was talking about there: hysterical b*tching and 'think of the zonerchildren' attitude. What is it? Is it the end of the world, folks, all over again? No, it's a thought-terminating cliché. With some ridiculously impatient people around here it's the thin layer between being every little wish'n'whim fulfilled and pages of pages of butthurt internet drama, like "either it's my way or I'm butthurt". Why, I'm ain't going to be held as a hostage to someone's lack of attention syndrome, and I'm pretty sure others wouldn't either.
(11-21-2013, 04:14 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: To give one group unfair advantage over all groups is WRONG. There is no “player’s good intentions in use of the infinite cloak”. It is WRONG. Tell me if no Admin was in the Wilde they would have gotten this gift anyway. The Admins have made a mistake. Please correct your mistake.
Here is a factoid for you now: admins had nothing to do with that. At all. Heck it even came as a surprise to Keepers/K'Hara, and it was a surprise for me as well. For a long time after general cloaks were added into the game nomads/wilde didn't have any cloaks at all, but you weren't there to say it's 'WRONG', no, of course not. So I'll give you free advice: you might want to look into correcting your own conspiracy-laden attitude and blatant mistakes before pointing fingers at people around you.
“it's just a nature of some folk - their way of trying to get attention to their persona without actually making anything themselves but pointing fingers at others and screaming bloody murder.”
That was out of line Treewrym. You wish to present a reasoned reply that is fine. You wish to denigrate me, that is inappropriate. I know full well a server running a ten year old game will one day die. It was my hope, to not accelerate the process. Now this concern has been woven into a “conspiracy”?
I do not want attention to this “persona”. I do want attention to the issue.
Guys, give them time to make their own rules about the use of the toys. Many factions already have started self-restricting the use at some degree. That's only fair to give them the time to do that.
There have been complaints.
It seems there is a reaction to it.
If it works, that's perfect.
If it doesn't, it can be changed.
Oh just do another gentleman agreement, the past shows that the said factions are really reliable in handling OP equipment and not abusing it..
Oh wait..
Also pointing fingers without any solid evidence is bad form of trolling as well. If they do it then you can just screen them and post it here for example.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
(11-21-2013, 09:37 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: That was out of line Treewrym. You wish to present a reasoned reply that is fine. You wish to denigrate me, that is inappropriate.
It was a fairly general statement pointing out how futile it would be to attempt to satisfy everyone's sense of what is right and what is wrong. You took a part of the sentence, ripping it out of its context and what then? I don't think it's unfair or inappropriate to criticize excessive states of that sort of behavior. You seem feel uncomfortable when associating yourself with that archetype I have generalized in my response, but that isn't my intent.
(11-21-2013, 09:37 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: I know full well a server running a ten year old game will one day die. It was my hope, to not accelerate the process. Now this concern has been woven into a “conspiracy”?
I don't know, you started with the whole conspiracy nonsense in the first place. But there ain't really much interwoven conspiracy in a lynch mob mentality in my view.
(11-21-2013, 09:37 PM)Judge Logan Wrote: I do not want attention to this “persona”. I do want attention to the issue.
An excessive attention, as I've pointed out, blown it out of proportion with that comment of yours above and demeanor attitude to satisfy your sense of rightfulness.
Oh, you're scared now of the Nomads and Das Wilde because they have something neat, new, and nifty that might give them an advantage in combat?
Good. About damn time they had something to compensate for being the laughing stock of bad guys everywhere.
Wait, what? Seriously, guys - put your animosity down for a second and go back to the original game. Sure, Trent as the hero of the game was able to defeat the Nomads in the end. But guess what? He really didn't - and not only that, Nomads and Wilde are SUPPOSED to be scary as hell.
Yet how many times have I flown into any house space with my K'Hara ship and instead of being feared because Nomads are supposed to be the 'bug-eyed monsters' under the bed that scare the crap out of little kids - and instead hear comments like, 'Oh, it's just another squid, kill it and let's get back what we were doing'. And of course, there's ALWAYS the ganking of the Nomad.
Wait, it's still unfair that Nomads have this toy, and we don't, you cry! Tough noogies, dude. It's not supposed to be fair always. Life isn't - otherwise we'd all be as wealthy as we are good looking. (Okay, bad example, but you know what I mean - I'm using a bit of sarcasm to illustrate my point here.)
When cloaks were released into the game, what did humans have to use to make them? Oh, yeah - Nomad remains. Remember the arguments and discussions about how damned stupid it was to require Nomads to kill other Nomads to make cloaks? I do. And if you're whining that Nomads are over-powered? Hey - we're SUPPOSED to be the bad guys. It's tough being the EVIL PRESENCE on the server that wants to eat your brains when any 10 year old furry fleet admiral can kill us. It's not like YOU RP with us when we send out notes to you in PM that we're invading your brains. (And don't say that doesn't happen - I've seen it way too often.)
(11-21-2013, 12:53 PM)Jihadjoe Wrote: Oh god... The end of days... Agmen agreed with me.
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