(05-06-2014, 02:19 PM)TheUnforgiven Wrote: EDIT: Besides, this really reeks of conspiracy. You do realize that even a trader with a 16k ranged scanner can still hire a scout and still manage to avoid you bomber squads steaking out the lane/gate? Hiring one scout can make all of these proposed changes totally useless and you'll be back to square one. *facepalm*
Try that with 2 LH at gates and you will see how scout is useless if pirates are experienced players.
I have traded for majority of my time here, untill I joined LH. Even at LH I trade quite a lot. I trade stolen goods too... The player count is all time low, and allowing tools to lower interaction count even more is counter productive to server population.
All I see here is traders whining that BATTLESHIP scanner might actually be made for BATTLESHIPS only and deny the chance to silently drop out of lane at 20k to cruise the pirate around.
First of all, Pirate interaction, is not mandatory and no one guaranteed it to you when you started playing. You can't just say all player interaction MUST be pirate vs trader. And you can't just throw away a lot of people's work because population drops. Maybe you should pirate less for a while, trade or RP as something else, instead of thinking in terms of taking something away from someone that they worked for, for obvious reasons. A successful trader is one that can avoid pirates. So you can't just say piracy is the only form of player on player interaction. If you want more interaction while population is low, go fill the gap, instead of using it as an opportunity to force changes in your favor. No one NEEDS to pirate, and if pickin's are slim, fly another ship/char, thats what I do. I'd never suggest making changes to screw someone else over for my own benefit.
And I agree, 2 LH at gates makes scouts useless. It then also makes removing BS scanners from traders just as useless. If you have some experience like you said, you'll find a way to out wit your opponent, not just hack off their equipment one thread at a time.
I think certain people are thinking in terms that allowing traders to avoid pirates with long range scanners lessens player interaction. Well no one makes you pirate though. The way I see it, favoring pirates in this way, will lower player interaction. If its just interaction you seek, you may not always get it on your favorite ship (like your LH). Log as an escort for once and see what happens. You can still get the interaction without forcefully lopping off trader's BS scanners. What you really want, is your preferred interaction, over the traders. Why should snub pirates win over them? And I'm not even a trader that uses a BS scanner for trading, I use if for piracy!
Originally there was never any nerf for a BS scanner, so it wasn't actually made for only battleships. Whining brought a nerf, which was a compromise, and seems to be fair the way it was implemented. What I see are people who just want any advantage a trader might have over snub pirates taken away, and decry 'INFOCARD' as an excuse, like people are really losing sleep over the consistency of its infocard. Thats called 'an excuse' to get what you really want. People are just hiding behind the description to not look so petty about their real goal.
Quote:And I agree, 2 LH at gates makes scouts useless. It then also makes removing BS scanners from traders just as useless. If you have some experience like you said, you'll find a way to out wit your opponent, not just hack off their equipment one thread at a time.
I was gonna say something along the same lines as well. Good pirates can overcome BS scanners...and good traders can out-wit pirates...sometimes. It's not necessarily supposed to be a guarantee that every encounter should be a 50-50 chance to win. Sometimes, you will definitely get caught by pirates. And sometimes, the traders will get away. C'est la vie.
You do understand that trader has much better chances to survive encounter midlane than at gates in the first place? Not to count the lane bug combined with infinite NPC missiles and mines?
(05-06-2014, 02:58 PM)Snak3 Wrote: Do you deny that BATTLESHIP scanners were meant for BATTLESHIPS or not?
You're just hiding behind this to get what you want. You can't admit there's no real reason to change them again. If it was so important than why was their no nerf or strict setting on who could mount them for such a long time? The value of it was enough to make it used only by players who put the work in, and there was nothing wrong with that. As time has passed, more players have them. Boohoo.
So yes, I do deny it. In that case Capital ship thrusters should only be allowed on Capital ships and Cheetah's should not be universal at all. Not to mention all of you with Capital Armor upgrades on your transports and gunboats should lose your CAU's by this logic. I mean, c'mon guys, its says CAPITAL ARMOR (specifically it says 'Armor upgrades specially developed for capital ships'). Can't any of you read?? /sarcasm.
It was set up that way as a PRACTICAL GAME MECHANIC meaning regardless of its name or infocard, it was the scanner worth saving for. It still is in many cases. Same with the CAU's, Cheetah Thrusters, etc. Live a little outside the infocard box!
I think it would be better if there was a new scanner for Transports made with 14k range? So transports would be able to mount only that scanner.If that happens so,we'll have traders with 14k range scanners. I think it's possible to do.
First off, an issue with the proposal - since rules against mounting enemy faction equipment have been abolished in favor of the tech/shipcompat plugins, you will see hordes of traders and miners gladly acquiring these inexpensive "pirate scanners" in exchange for a 10% core modifier - a small price to pay, especially for those who rarely using their guns, are in 5kers, already fly above/under plane, or are silent and just opt to lose their cargo.
Yes, it's often "pirate RP" to run from the law, but with all pirates equipping these scanners, interaction with law enforcement will be purely optional - snubs fast enough to intercept can't use them and capital ships are either slower or have no disruptors. Now, if there were to be a review of cloaking device requirements/duration/rules for lawfuls and unlawfuls to negate the scanners, that might mix things up a bit (but I know there's a can of worms there).
Unless this is a proposal to make BS scanners on transports a sanctionable offense, they are going to be used one way or the other - at least the high cost limits it to wealthier traders (and even then, many do not use them). Similar to the trade lane discussion, this will be a community-wide change to penalize an irritating minority. Limitations on traders who fly above/below plane, use BS scanners, or use other methods to avoid interaction will not force them to interact and bring rich RP - they'll simply die silently and resume trading, only fly easy/safe routes, watch the player list for empty systems, or stop playing altogether.
(05-06-2014, 02:58 PM)Snak3 Wrote: Do you deny that BATTLESHIP scanners were meant for BATTLESHIPS or not?
You're just hiding behind this to get what you want. You can't admit there's no real reason to change them again. If it was so important than why was their no nerf or strict setting on who could mount them for such a long time? The value of it was enough to make it used only by players who put the work in, and there was nothing wrong with that. As time has passed, more players have them. Boohoo.
So yes, I do deny it. In that case Capital ship thrusters should only be allowed on Capital ships and Cheetah's should not be universal at all. Not to mention all of you with Capital Armor upgrades on your transports and gunboats should lose your CAU's by this logic. I mean, c'mon guys, its says CAPITAL ARMOR (specifically it says 'Armor upgrades specially developed for capital ships'). Can't any of you read?? /sarcasm.
It was set up that way as a PRACTICAL GAME MECHANIC meaning regardless of its name or infocard, it was the scanner worth saving for. It still is in many cases. Same with the CAU's, Cheetah Thrusters, etc. Live a little outside the infocard box!
The Capital Ship thruster only gives a health bonus and is outclassed by the Enh. thruster, and the capital armors only give a moderate boost to ship health. The Cheetah Thruster gives a minimal boost to drain with a massive price tag and horrifying repair costs.
The Battleship scanner, iRP, was made for Battleships originally. That doesn't mean much in comparison to the fact that it increases scanner range tremendously. 25k? That's preposterous. The fact that a transport can travel through a lane and see the pirate camping it from miles away just makes it even harder to pirate people. Couple this with the buffed transport guns and armor and it makes snub pirating even harder than it should.
BUT OH, YOU SHOULD CAMP THE GATE THEN!
No, because Jump Gate guns do a shartload of damage and interfere with piracy.
Snub piracy is NOT in ANY WAY, SHAPE, or FORM skewered in favor of bombers. Transports can thrust away mid lane to the nearest base. They can cruise away with the help of BS scanners and the pirate bombers are too slow to catch up. Just because you're too stupid to armor up your transport doesn't mean you should whine about snub piracy being OP, and just because you picked on noobs who didn't use armor doesn't mean it is either.
This is from the perspective of a Liberty lawful. No pirates that actually pirate log anymore and I've had no incentive to hunt them.
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