With this plan to reimplement roleplay IDs into the mod, we're intending to identify different lines of roleplay popular among the community and by incorporating minor perks in each ID, provide a better ground for more freedom in roleplay. Please note that these IDs do not essentially need to be generic IDs, and your suggestions can include IDs intended for use as a secondary ID by factions (e.g. Diplomat ID), but it's preffered if the suggestions are kept as generic as possible, as these IDs will be made open-use if implemented.
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If "new/old" ID´s gan give some Players a chance to finetune and / or define their RP I see nothing wrong with that, although I must also agree that most fine points usually die due to collateral damage in @llround free to Pew. ( Insert favorite tears < here > ).
And I suppose it will give more loophols, producing more nice sanction notes to read,
quite usefull for distraction while at work or trading.
But if I read aerelmy words correctly, a faction ... like [LN] , or BAF| or even T&T/ , could build a ship,TAG it with faction TAG, and then insert a RP ID instead of the normal faction ID ?
Yes : [ ]
No : [ ]
?
I think yes, but it would be optimal the ship has same IFF.
Honestly, I'm in the side that ID's should be invisible, and that we should only base ourselves on IFF's
But frankly, I don't think this'll happen because the main point of ID is for screenshooting for rules-lawyering purposes. How I see it is that, instead of the admin having to manually look at the accused ship's ID in a sanction report, the victim will do that job for him by responsibly screenshooting the accused ship's.
EDIT: I agree with Teerin's segregation of Freelancer ID into more specific ones, to indicate bonuses and the pilot's specialty.
No ship should be able to mine ANYTHING (not even water, hydrocarbons, etc.) unless they use mining turrets on specialized mining ships with miner ID/faction miner ID's.
Hauler ID's will be able to use 3600 ships, while the rest can't use more than freighters.
However, I'm torn about the merc ID because seriously... I can't shoot a pirate unless it's been bountied? SERIOUSLY, THAT A-HAT'S RIGHT FRIGGIN THERE, AND I CAN'T SHOOT EET UNLESS SOMEONEZ BOUNTIES EET FOR MEH?!?!?11?!!11?
How do you claim bounties? How do you take out an unlawful donning a FL IFF? A hostile combatant on a neutral IFF and so on and so forth?
Swell idea in theory, in practice it cannot work.
You have to accept that for rules and gameplay purposes, ID's ARE AN IN-RP ITEM.
Besides, that way you make sure to avoid another point of contention that will surely lead to many an argument about what players know and don't know both in-game and out of game.
P.S. Yes, personally I do think IND is a redundant faction, everything could be done on an IC ID, as an IC subfaction. If anything, I'd like to see fewer ID's overall. To say that you can't roleplay a specific role without a certain ID is like saying you can't roleplay a particular character without using certain naughty words. Be creative!
(03-25-2015, 08:30 PM)Sarawr!? Wrote: adding unique RP IDs back into the game won't make things better, unless we revert back to having IDs be considered nothing more than oorp guidelines.
Of course that would be the ideal solution when improving roleplay quality and flexibility is the subject, but I'm certain anyone old enough still remembers the mess it made the last time we tried that, simply due to people's unwillingness to move out of their comfort zones a little bit to at least give it a try before asking for it to be reverted.
Nice... the "last time" aerelm quoted < here > was before my time, with me joining Disco early 2014. I have never seen the thread and have never seen the important parts that confuzed me described so clearly... :
(11-18-2013, 08:04 PM)aerelm Wrote:
Quote:
Edit - To avoid any confusions: The following is no longer valid as the changes were reverted on 12-12-2013
Each Pilot also has an identification card. This, in roleplay, is the pilot's, and not the ships.
Each Ship has an IFF transponder. This, in roleplay, shows the alignment of the pilot.
Each Ship has an ID item equipped. This, which does not exist within roleplay, only defines the ingame allowances of the player based on the faction that ID item belongs to.
Now, let's talk on a Pilot's ID card. This has been part of the vanilla Freelancer, and naturally also exists within roleplay boundaries of Discovery. Even when you walk into a bar for the first time, the NPCs ask for your "card" before actually talking to you. This, however, doesn't mean the pilot slaps it against the windshield of the ship every time he goes for a fly, so cannot be seen when scanning the ship. It means characters can still ask for a stranger's "ID" before deciding which way to take the interaction, and "IDs not being part of the roleplay" simply refers to the ID item mounted on the ship which appears in the scan screen, and not the pilot's actual set of identification papers.
So to put it simple: Every pilot still has an ID, you just can't see it by scanning their ship, and would have to actually ask for it. Now if they send you a falsified identification? Well, tough luck. Who says that's not roleplay?
Then, let's apply the whole thing to bounty boards:
You do not hire people you do not completely trust, so you'd naturally want to check their ID before hiring them, and make sure they're actually part of the faction you're hiring, and are not just affiliated with the group. It'd make sense to request to see the pilot's identifications before clearing them to hunt for your board, so the registration process goes on the same as before regardless of the rules update, now it just has a bit more RP flavor.
When you put a bounty on a whole faction, means they've done you wrong, and you want them dead, so your bounty applies to everyone affiliated to that faction and carrying their transponders. If someone's close enough to the group you hate to actually have their transponder installed, then what's the difference between them and any pilot of that faction? You of course can tell your hunters to ask for the hostile pilot's identifications before actually lighting him up, but even if they did so, why would the target provide his ID to a random stranger or a good-for-nothing bunter?
The community has been asking for an explanation on this, and I was holding back for a while to see if anyone would actually figure it out on their own and in the process come up with fresh ideas on how to utilize this new flexibility in the server roleplay. Since not only did that not happen, but it even turned into a good bit of headache for nearly everyone, here's your monthly doze of green provided by your friendly neighborhood conspirator to put your minds to rest. Crap. That totally came out wrong, but oh well.
THX ! ( And I do feel ashamed that I did not figure it out myself, sry )
Back to topic :
So the "secondary ID" you propose is a PILOT ID CARD ,
further expanding the PRIMARY SHIP ID that balances ship nerf and game mechanics,
and standing next to the ID / IFF pair ?
With NO GAME MECHANIC INFLUENCE WHATSOERVER ?
Or will the 2nd ID influence and change the primary one ?
Meaning we all get the possibility to mount a second ID that not only is relevant to RP, but adds "minor nerfs" to allowances?
Code:
I would have a few suggestions then :
"worker & Miner" adding a +1 to mining gain but decreasing weapon core by 10%
"proficient trader" ( i dont know if this is possible : ) adding either 10% to cargo capacity or 10 % to sellers profit , again for 10 % weapon nerf , perhaps even 10% speed nerf in cruise ?
"explorer" I would add 10% scanner range and decrease cargo by 10%
"pirate" increase speed by 10% , decrease cargo by 10 % ?
After giving more thought to it I have updated the Independent Trader ID submission to include a restriction to it's allowed cargo. Since Freelancers can transport 3600, and major corporations are the only one who can transport in ships with 5000 units of cargo. I have submitted it with 4300 cargo capacity ship restriction. This would balance it in my opinion, as for it's role play purpose of it i believe that a trader who travel to many locations are well exposed to meet a lot of other players.
Besides the usual meet and greet with other traders, there is the aspect of negotiating for escort, clear customs with officials, negotiate with miners, partner with organizations needing regular cargo delivered, even with owners of POB's to supply their base, pirate encounters and of course just stick around for coffee at the a station and discuss the day.
The role play quality is up to the player how much they immerse in to their role not the ID. You can have a dull conversation with a police officer who is new and not really got the hang of the RP, or an immerse and good quality RP with a pirate who is experienced in the role playing aspect of the game.
Many players expressed feedback regarding to the existing "Power Traders". There is a reason such term even exists, may i point out. There are player who make their credit by trading, so as some who will do it with mining or bounties, or pirating. This demonstrates that there is a significant role for traders, and deems it worthy to have an additional aspect of trading in my opinion.
I am very new to Disco, but really enjoy it. Still learning a lot about the RP, forum RP, and all the different things in game and as a new player, my impression of the different available ID's and the style of roles i like to play conceived the submission.
On a different topic, one thing I felt to add. It might should belong to a different thread but it has relation to the ID system.
There could be In game Items implemented that are called "Contracts" similar to the Guide, or History item that new characters receive. The best i could demonstrate is with an example.
If i work as a police officer in liberty, i keep a few units of "Liberty Police Contractor Agreement" so when there is no backup available, i could hire a Freelancer and provide him a contract, or a bounty hunter for the purpose of a temporary agreement to assist in the patrols. This would identify the who is doing what, would actually materialize agreement in RP.
Or for instance if a Miner company have an mining operation, and they are lacking of transport. They could buy the contract item from the respective faction base called for instance "GMG Transporter Agreement" , "IMG Security Escort Agreement".
This contracts could be written up by faction leaders in terms of what they intended to hire the other party for. It would add dept to the RP i believe. Specially when inter faction cooperation is taking place.
(03-26-2015, 06:37 AM)Mímir Wrote: How do you claim bounties? How do you take out an unlawful donning a FL IFF? A hostile combatant on a neutral IFF and so on and so forth?
Claiming a bounty on a neutral/Freelancer-IFF vessel? Easy:
1.) have another player (character) testify [bonus points if they're the victim of said neut, bonus bonus points with screenshots and DSAce logs, etc. HAVE PROOF]
2.) the neutral/FL-IFF HAS his ship name written in glowing-to-die letters in a respective bounty board
3.) that you OBVIOUSLY see them causing a ruckus where they are [bonus points if you can screenshot them shooting your allies and/or your allies' allies, HAVE PROOF]
(03-26-2015, 07:49 AM)Tinker and Transport Wrote: "miner" +1 mining gain to ALL mineable commodities, reflecting their generalized nature
"proficient trader" adding 10% to sellers profit, 10% nerf to cruise charge speed
"explorer" add 25% scanner range, but decrease powercore by 25%
"privateer" no bonuses/nerfs (would advocate merging Freelancer ID with Pirate ID into this)
::: fixed for you :::
I'm totally up for this. IMO, ID's should determine the player's desired BENEFIT for specializing in a role.
Except that, you know... I'm rather in the view that no one should be able to mine ANYTHING except people with Miner ID's.
(03-26-2015, 07:49 AM)Tinker and Transport Wrote: Nice... the "last time" aerelm quoted < here > was before my time, with me joining Disco early 2014. I have never seen the thread and have never seen the important parts that confuzed me described so clearly...
Just to clarify, the post you quoted is no longer valid and the actual ID item does currently exist InRP. The suggestion to make the ID oorp has been popping up since I can remember, and the team decided to give it a try during the 2013 rules rewrite run, so what you quoted was a deliberation on the trial run we were doing for removing IDs from RP environment and keeping them merely as oorp guidelines for each character, however, due to general community's unwillingness (at the time) to actually try the new direction, it instead caused a good deal of confusions, complaints, a spike in violation reports and also opened a few loopholes, that change was later reverted so as things currently stand, IDs do exist in roleplay.
Furthermore, to clarify the secondary ID concept - The subject of secondary IDs is an old one as well, and it did exist back in 4.85. Back then factions were allowed to pick one generic ID as their secondary ID (long as it did not contradict with their primary ID, e.g. [LN] couldn't pick Pirate ID as their secondary) and while they had to stick to their primary ID for their regular activity, they could utilize characters using the secondary ID for specific roles. For instance, a few factions used Freelancer/Mercenary ID as their secondary ID and utilized it for specialized "scout" wings which would gather intel outside their active ZoI, or to actively assist their foreign allies in their ZoI through their bounty board. Now, with the subject of reimplementing roleplay IDs brought up again, one option (an option - so it's just a possibility for now and nothing definite) would be to implement a set of IDs specifically intended as secondary IDs, like the Diplomat ID mentioned in the original post. These IDs need to focus on a specific role, but that role needs to be generic enough to allow for one ID to be utilized by any faction (to avoid having to make one lawful and one unlawful diplomat ID for each house, for example).
In other words, the IDs we're looking for should be intended for:
(03-25-2015, 05:55 PM)Lythrilux Wrote: roles that are too specific to be generic, but too generic to be faction based
But of course, that's just for secondary IDs and actual generic IDs for use on generic characters (e.g. Researcher, Vigilante, Slaver, etc) can also be suggested.
(03-25-2015, 08:30 PM)Sarawr!? Wrote: adding unique RP IDs back into the game won't make things better, unless we revert back to having IDs be considered nothing more than oorp guidelines.
Of course that would be the ideal solution when improving roleplay quality and flexibility is the subject, but I'm certain anyone old enough still remembers the mess it made the last time we tried that, simply due to people's unwillingness to move out of their comfort zones a little bit to at least give it a try before asking for it to be reverted.
Last time it involved the implementation of a fictious entity called "Pilot ID" with no solid in-game representation to back players' claims on it, and when I asked questions I got no answers just things like "your concerns are too early" and "go play the game" as a response. I don't think it was our unwillingness to move out of our comfort zones, rather your unwillingness to respond in value, at least I sure know I'd welcome such change (IDs going ooRP), but not with the crapload of gaps and grey areas the Pilot ID would bring.