(12-31-2015, 12:17 AM)|nfrared Wrote: LOL
If you think I'm defending Junkers, you don't know me at all. Personally I used to live for Salvager explosions.
I am simply asking why these two groups that monopolize that cardi and slave trade in Liberty would be tearing each other up, to me that makes not a lot of sense. But you seem not to care too much about long standing diplomacy, and instead got all defensive.
You say the person could have left at any time. That doesn't tell us what under what reasoning he was stopped in the first place though.
The reason he was stopped was that he was a Junker, not hauling anything worth being happy about. And he had turrets. That are worth parts. For us to make, repair and upkeep ships. We stopped him just like any other piracy target. There is absolutely no reason why some untagged Indie Junker would NOT be worth pirating. Tagged official ones - those are a different deal of course. But just some scrub in a Pelican in Cortez, far away from any eyes, they are free game. Dawson is a new group, there are no contacts yet. We haven't encountered any tagged faction outside the LH and Cross so far. If we ended up pissing off the Junkers, it would have at least made things interesting. Roleplay consequences are, again, the bread and butter of this group. Trying to smooth out those ties if we ended up shooting something we shouldn't have is just part of the course.
To the OP, just PM me all of your character names in Liberty, so I can tell our guys to ignore you. If this is the sort of thing I have to deal with after what could have been an interesting encounter, I would rather not have anything to do with you. We all know how unstable you are, if I had known this character belonged to you, I would have saved myself some grey hairs and ignored you.
Project shelved. Refer to this thread for further details.
(12-31-2015, 12:15 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: This whole thread is rather nonsensical. It is just people trying to find something to be angry about, while completely ignoring the CONTEXT that the encounter took place in.
Rules ignore context, rules provide groundwork to which context can be created, if you are allowed to demand anything the ID should say so, but if the ID says only credits and/or cargo then that is what you are limited to; this is exactly the same(ish) problem that the LR ran into when they would force hire Freelancers, a few of them would go for it, most would not, and people still complained because it wasn't listed within the bounds of the rules
This entire thread is just going to turn into a hate train until an admin comes in an tells us yes or no
(12-31-2015, 12:23 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: To the OP, just PM me all of your character names in Liberty, so I can tell our guys to ignore you. If this is the sort of thing I have to deal with after what could have been an interesting encounter, I would rather not have anything to do with you. We all know how unstable you are, if I had known this character belonged to you, I would have saved myself some grey hairs and ignored you.
I feel that is a bit unfair (maybe just me), yet maybe just clear things up and revert the misunderstanding to everything is fare game again
@Dawson Base
All I wanted to do was a non-sided legit question about rules, because I was purely interested into such a case - notice how I even omnited about which unlawful ID I were asking. I asked to close this topic, because I had my question answered and I've learnt something new.
But no, you posted logs, attempting to do something that is trial by forum, forcing me to bring up entire situation. It wasn't my intention. At all.
To sum up what has been said so far, this is another case of Rule vs. Precedent. Rules, by default, are unable to account for everything in every situation. In many situations rules are bent, sometimes even broken, to acommodate for Roleplay. If there'd be a salvaging function in Freelancer, that would've been used. There is none, therefore the guns are used, as a roleplaying substitute. As established above, there have been a multitude of precendents showing that RP demands are legit, even if not stated explicitly in the rules.
@"FluffReborn"
There was no trial by forum whatsoever. You claimed that there was an impossible demand and portrayed the situation as 'you were being shot at without reason', which he answered with proving that this was not the case. That's not trial by forum, that's simply disproving a point.
(12-31-2015, 12:30 AM)FluffReborn Wrote: @Dawson Base
All I wanted to do was a non-sided legit question about rules, because I was purely interested into such a case - notice how I even omnited about which unlawful ID I were asking. I asked to close this topic, because I had my question answered. But no, you posted logs and attempting to do something that is trial by forum, forcing me to bring up entire situation.
Yes, all because I was legitematelly upset with the encounter I had with you. I expected that a Junker might start squealing like pig that someone dares to pirate them, but from my point of view, it quickly went from ''you cannot pirate me'' in an IRP concept, which I was fine with, to "You cannot pirate me like this" OORPly, which is where I started to take an issue with.
To me, all you were doing was trying to find excuses not to get pirated. So much so that you resorted to OORP chatter in local and PM before AND after the encounter. When I saw this thread, what I was going to write off as ''yet another dumb trader'' turned into something a bit more nasty, as even though you did not speak about who or what pirated you, you were intent on describing the situation in a manner that DID. NOT. HAPPEN.
Nobody asked you to disable shields so they could kill you.
Nobody asked you to shoot your own guns off.
Nobody asked you to do anything that was impossible.
That is why I posted.
That is why we are now here.
Project shelved. Refer to this thread for further details.
(12-31-2015, 12:15 AM)Dawson Base Wrote: Let us back up a moment here.
The person in question was stopped by us and told that we would be taking their guns. This is a demand with a loss to the person in a same manner that asking credits or cargo being dropped is. I think you are reading too much into how this ties in with the server rules, but are ignoring the roleplay aspect of the situation. The ship was stopped for the big baddies to disassemble their weapon systems. I am very sorry, but due to the games engine limitations, I cannot remove your guns without shooting them. But that is the point - if you had complied and sat still, just like many people before you, the guns would have been removed from you without your hull even taking a scratch.
This whole thread is rather nonsensical. It is just people trying to find something to be angry about, while completely ignoring the CONTEXT that the encounter took place in.
That's the problem man, you can't remove them without shooting them off? You can't see the difference as to how transferring cash or cargo is not the same as letting someone have to shoot at you period. Don't apologize for the limitations, recognize them and know when you're crossing the line. You may not have had trouble thus far but as you now know that only went so far without hitting a bump in the road right?
Although I wouldn't have made a thread on this for a while, I can't help but chime in. I think a line needs to be drawn to discourage people from treating turrets as legitimate pirate bounty and 'having no choice' but to shoot them off to get them. Do your shooting after your demands for something tangeable and aren't getting your way. The shield dropping thing is 'legite' but only to the point where again, do we need to draw the line that dropping shields is the same as a demand to stop? (Or that dropping shields after someone stops IS meeting the demand, so more demands on top wind up being like demanding cash again right after being paid...)
I noticed you demanded both stopping and shields lowered, so the demand to stop gets adhered to under ID rules...then the demand for the shield to go down, so is that the demand? Or is it the turrets? I'm starting to get confused with all these demands to comply to that could land me shot if I don't comply. You don't see the problem with having ID rules and letting anyone who can make demands in their ZOI (for cargo and credits for that matter) just pirate for turrets and kill anyone who won't lower their shields...after stopping? Settle for what the rest of us settle for, demand something valuable, if your time is so important. If you'd demanded 10 mil from me i'd have paid it, and if I had refused, I wouldn't have complained over the outcome.