(12-18-2019, 05:05 AM)Typrop Wrote: ... Isn't like, the entire premise as to why Outcast society is unified is because they're all addicted to Cardamine, and Malta is the only source of Cardamine that can be reliably exploited? Therefore making turncoating basically the dumbest possible thing you could ever do because you're cutting off something you need to live, without essentially taking out a space-mortgage to fund your crippling habit?
While this is true to an extent, the *MR| supplements the lack of access to Malta by using secondary sources, as well as working to grow their own in small quantities. The population of the Republic is rather small, and readily accepts usage of Stabiline to make up for the lack of up front access to Cardamine.
Reliability isn't really an issue when your population that requires Cardamine is small enough to be sustainable, yet prolific enough to make a mark that the *MR| aims to.
(12-18-2019, 05:14 AM)Charo Wrote: >we have these brand new caps because of defectors
That's some auxesia tier stuff tbh
Understandable, though it's not as unregulated as it may sound. The *MR| does take into account the origin, background (if any), and contact by the captain of such, and I personally ensure that it makes at least some amount of roleplay sense.
In addition, I failed to mention that the *MR| does have a history with 'capturing' ships to fuel their own motives. Warships are not outside of this realm of possibility, so it's not entirely defectors. Convincing Maltese captains the 'error of their ways' is in the MO though, and it's something the *MR| aims to do over wasting resources taking a ship by force.
(12-18-2019, 05:27 AM)SnakThree Wrote: Tell that to all people who joined before RCR was posted and all factions before RCR and all characters before RCR and all ideas before RCR. lol
If you want to argue whether or not the *MR| should or should not be exempt, feel free. I stand by what I say and think it's unfair for it to be subject to something that didn't exist at the faction's inception. The same ideal goes for every other faction that may be effected by the RCR template.
It's grossly underdeveloped, and just the wording is enough to deter people from trying anything other than the bare-bones norm.
(12-18-2019, 05:33 AM)Spectre Wrote: While this is true to an extent, the *MR| supplements the lack of access to Malta by using secondary sources, as well as working to grow their own in small quantities. The population of the Republic is rather small, and readily accepts usage of Stabiline to make up for the lack of up front access to Cardamine.
Reliability isn't really an issue when your population that requires Cardamine is small enough to be sustainable, yet prolific enough to make a mark that the *MR| aims to.
So, let me get this straight. Cardamine. Only grows on Malta. Demonstrably, only grown on Malta. Grown elsewhere. Stabiline, highly controlled and regulated, and still ridiculously expensive. "Small yet sustainable," yet clearly enough to crew huge capital ships. Excuse me if I'm at least a bit incredulous towards the entire concept.
Especially since the choice, given to the average Maltese serviceman, is to either continue getting paid and an easy supply of the stuff that keeps you alive, or getting outcasted from your Outcast society and living in a commune where death from withdrawal is evidently very likely, considering the fact that you're blowing what is probably your space-pension's entire money every month for your fix.
Edit: And Soledad. Which is also, mind you, Maltese-controlled.
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(12-18-2019, 05:46 AM)Typrop Wrote: So, let me get this straight. Cardamine. Only grows on Malta. Demonstrably, only grown on Malta. Grown elsewhere. Stabiline, highly controlled and regulated, and still ridiculously expensive. "Small yet sustainable," yet clearly enough to crew huge capital ships. Excuse me if I'm at least a bit incredulous towards the entire concept.
Cardamine has been grown on bodies outside of Malta for some time now. This much is legitimately in the canon. Planet Soledad's infocard notes a small 'Malta-like band' on the equator that can grow Cardamine. (You ninja edited that, so yea) Beyond that, 'growing their own' was generally meant to insinuate that it's in the works. That's on me for not clarifying. My bad.
As for Stabiline, I'm not entirely sure what the going market price for it is, though I will note that the *MR| does get its supply through surplus means through Crayter. I've noted earlier, about a couple months ago, that the faction at the current stage does pretty much rely on the CR for most of its imports, which to an extent to include Stabiline and Cardamine for their own people.
Regarding warships, most of them I'd say are rather small. A Sarissa, a few destroyers and a gunship are hardly what I'd consider labor intensive, especially considering the amount of automation that's commonplace in the Freelancer universe. Add into that the fact that the Republic isn't entirely 100% native Maltesians, and the numbers become considerably more believable imo. The people manning the ships for the most part are, but those groundside are mostly non-natives working either by connection, desire or out of necessity.
(12-18-2019, 06:00 AM)Spectre Wrote: Cardamine has been grown on bodies outside of Malta for some time now. This much is legitimately in the canon. Planet Soledad's infocard notes a small 'Malta-like band' on the equator that can grow Cardamine. (You ninja edited that, so yea) Beyond that, 'growing their own' was generally meant to insinuate that it's in the works. That's on me for not clarifying. My bad.
As for Stabiline, I'm not entirely sure what the going market price for it is, though I will note that the *MR| does get its supply through surplus means through Crayter. I've noted earlier, about a couple months ago, that the faction at the current stage does pretty much rely on the CR for most of its imports, which to an extent to include Stabiline and Cardamine for their own people.
Regarding warships, most of them I'd say are rather small. A Sarissa, a few destroyers and a gunship are hardly what I'd consider labor intensive, especially considering the amount of automation that's commonplace in the Freelancer universe. Add into that the fact that the Republic isn't entirely 100% native Maltesians, and the numbers become considerably more believable imo. The people manning the ships for the most part are, but those groundside are mostly non-natives working either by connection, desire or out of necessity.
So they're a Maltese defector group that aren't Maltese outside of shipfarers, which provides a convenient reason for every single ship to be Maltese without actually being Maltese, get their supply of an expensive drug that merely prevents death via withdrawal from a separate nation, seemingly out of sheer goodwill, and people are just working with them because they really like this Maltese splinter faction, or because they have friends there. And also the concept that a government is giving people Cardamine that isn't Maltese. Which, essentially, means that the Crayterian Republic are actively storing Cardamine just to give to these people, despite distributing Cardamine being one of the primary reasons people dislike the Maltese to begin with, and have not been ordered to cease and desist by any government with territory larger than one, maybe two systems.
This is called contrivance.
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To be honest, I'm not sure how 'Maltese ships that aren't Maltese' makes sense, but to each their own I suppose.
Crayter, from my understanding, has had a history of stockpiling Cardamine for use by their own people, as to my knowledge part of the population of Borneo itself is already of Maltese origin. It's not solely for the *MR|. That much I had to ensure was clear during the RP years ago. Nothing's given away. That'd just be stupid.
The supply of the faction goes primarily through the CR as Crayter can act as a middleman for the *MR| to obtain supplies that it in turn pays the CR for. Whatever the CR doesn't use for those who need it that they govern is sold off to the *MR| as surplus. Bear in mind, the CR population is roughly 20 times that of the *MR| (give or take, I'm still figuring out the actual numbers for both but have a rough estimate as well as clarification from the devs), which allows for the runoff from the CR to handily supply the micro-state *MR|.
(12-18-2019, 05:46 AM)Typrop Wrote: So, let me get this straight. Cardamine. Only grows on Malta. Demonstrably, only grown on Malta. Grown elsewhere. Stabiline, highly controlled and regulated, and still ridiculously expensive. "Small yet sustainable," yet clearly enough to crew huge capital ships. Excuse me if I'm at least a bit incredulous towards the entire concept.
Cardamine has been grown on bodies outside of Malta for some time now. This much is legitimately in the canon. Planet Soledad's infocard notes a small 'Malta-like band' on the equator that can grow Cardamine. (You ninja edited that, so yea) Beyond that, 'growing their own' was generally meant to insinuate that it's in the works. That's on me for not clarifying. My bad.
As for Stabiline, I'm not entirely sure what the going market price for it is, though I will note that the *MR| does get its supply through surplus means through Crayter. I've noted earlier, about a couple months ago, that the faction at the current stage does pretty much rely on the CR for most of its imports, which to an extent to include Stabiline and Cardamine for their own people.
Regarding warships, most of them I'd say are rather small. A Sarissa, a few destroyers and a gunship are hardly what I'd consider labor intensive, especially considering the amount of automation that's commonplace in the Freelancer universe. Add into that the fact that the Republic isn't entirely 100% native Maltesians, and the numbers become considerably more believable imo. The people manning the ships for the most part are, but those groundside are mostly non-natives working either by connection, desire or out of necessity.
If one reads the infocard of Galicia Research Station in Beta, the stance of the devs and the mod on Cardamine growing "elsewhere" becomes pretty much self-evident. Cardamine grows only on Malta and on a small portion of Soledad. Period.
Stabiline cannot support a big population for a number of reasons, some of which have already been pointed out:
expensive
difficult supply to Taus from Liberty (while Cryer might be interested to some extent in it for research purposes, the risks outweigh the benefits, IMHO)
in addition to the previous point, there are no other credible suppliers of Stabiline except for Cryer. Even if, say, CR lays hands on Stabiline (somehow) to cater for its own addicted population, most of it will be spent on its population by logic, not on some "for some reason friendly Outcasts".
As for "defectors" - there was a reason we had a strong grudge with MOA in its time. There are but a few reasons for a Maltese captain, quite high in hierarchy, to defect. Unless he runs for his life from some rival Maltese, there are basically no reasons to defect. Malta is a society of abundance - Maltese are rich, enjoy enormous profits from selling Cardi on which they possess a monopoly, tons of cash to spend on imports from all across Sirius (which can be delivered, ofc), have slaves for different kinds of fun, and live long and healthy lives. Besides, aside from defecting captain the crew must defect too. Otherwise, the crew can take over the ship and lynch the captain for treason. I can hardly imagine a ship of a rich albeit controversial country (say, Saudi Arabia where kids get quite some cash just for being born a citizen) would defect to an opponent, considered home absolute evil, and of different ideology. Just imagine Saudi navy ship defecting to, say, Israel. Or even Iran. Or South Korean ship defecting to North Korea. Even if the captain is an ideological zealot, the whole crew is unlikely to follow him.
So recent battlecruisers joining you? Unlikely. It would mean that from inRP few BCR recently released at least one already decided to defect which, given the sheer number of those BCR, would be a headline for all Malta that would take appropriate measures most likely. It would also imply that such defections are routine business and happen often (and they don't).
As for the ship size - it might be not big indeed but it is expensive to maintain. InRP Malta same as Crete have 7-9 caps each. We are talking about quasi- (or rogue- if you like) states with half-billion population as opposed to MR renegades whose population is at maximum 50-70k, have no industrial complex or shipyards, or strong economy to support a big fleet. Existing from the beginning ships - fine, that falls in line with the story. New ones? Hardly doubt so.
Overall, IMHO, while politics on Malta can be RPed in any way, a revolutionary faction makes little sense due to the main problem of dependence on Cardamine. Corsairs' revolutionaries make more sense - they are not bound by Cardi to one place, they have overpopulation and starvation, human life is worth nothing and many people can be expected under such circumstances to search better life elsewhere (like European colonists in 16-17th centuries) or have nothing to lose, hence quite reactionary and radical (like during Russian October Revolution of 1917). OC on the contrary are homogenous, wealthy, relatively safe society dependent on their place of origin and on trade with their exclusive commodity. Stability is everything for them because instability is bad for trade, hence, for all Malta.
Just some thoughts - given the recent RCR provisions it becomes much harder to divert a vanilla faction to the course one would wish to.
(12-18-2019, 06:28 AM)Spectre Wrote: To be honest, I'm not sure how 'Maltese ships that aren't Maltese' makes sense, but to each their own I suppose.
Crayter, from my understanding, has had a history of stockpiling Cardamine for use by their own people, as to my knowledge part of the population of Borneo itself is already of Maltese origin. It's not solely for the *MR|. That much I had to ensure was clear during the RP years ago. Nothing's given away. That'd just be stupid.
The supply of the faction goes primarily through the CR as Crayter can act as a middleman for the *MR| to obtain supplies that it in turn pays the CR for. Whatever the CR doesn't use for those who need it that they govern is sold off to the *MR| as surplus. Bear in mind, the CR population is roughly 20 times that of the *MR| (give or take, I'm still figuring out the actual numbers for both but have a rough estimate as well as clarification from the devs), which allows for the runoff from the CR to handily supply the micro-state *MR|.
"Maltese ships that aren't Maltese" ex: Maltese ships from a Maltese faction conveniently supported by a population of non-cardamine addict, non-Maltese people. And I'm sure that all that surplus Cardamine is just sold to them, with no concern for futureproofing in the event that the supply gets cut short. And plus, considering you just described the working population of MR| to be non-Maltese, I have difficulty believing the faction itself is Maltese anymore, or why they would be working under a banner of reforming a foreign government they have zero reason to care about. It's a bit like a German revolutionary faction being comprised of mostly Swiss people, who more or less live in Switzerland and don't even identify as German.
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(12-18-2019, 06:30 AM)Mr.Cardaminum Wrote: If one reads the infocard of Galicia Research Station in Beta, the stance of the devs and the mod on Cardamine growing "elsewhere" becomes pretty much self-evident. Cardamine grows only on Malta and on a small portion of Soledad. Period.
Galicia Infocard Wrote:Galicia Research Station was set up not too far from Ruiz and in far orbit of Planet Elysium in order to further study the mysterious former gas giant. That's not all, though, for a few laboratories have been set aside to examine and experiment on Cardamine away from the prying eyes of the Maltese population. Those scientists perform tests on the drug to collect data on some of its auxiliary genetic alterations and conduct detailed analyses about Cardamine's euphoria inducing effects on the human body. This station also recently led a controversial project to test the feasibility of growing Cardamine grass inside its bio-domes, thus potentially on other planets as well, but with very little in the way of success. Another rendition of the project is currently being planned, which is to be aided by a more public campaign in an attempt to boost support of the concept.
I don't see the word impossible here, nor is it implied. Unless it says it's impossible, or it's written in gold lettering, I'm of a mind that it can be made possible, and I intend to try for it.
Regarding all the other RP-focused complaints, I'll let the threads and RP speak for itself. I've tried to explain it, but it seems it's just not getting through. Maybe I can explain it better when it's not late and when I'm not fueled by caffeine.
As for the RCR, I will stand by what I said. If it impacts the faction, then I'll take measures to ensure the faction survives. Happened with the FR5, won't be any different here.
Vanilla lore Wrote:"All Outcasts are thoroughly addicted to and genetically altered by the drug Cardamine, produced exclusively on the Outcasts homeworld. Withdrawal symptoms include a progressively worsening sickness which leads to the death of the addict if additional Cardamine is not obtained. Outcasts wear masks to dispense small doses of Cardamine into their system constantly, and prefer to sleep in Cardamine sleep chambers. This intense addiction ensures absolute loyalty throughout the Outcasts themselves (with perhaps some minor internal conflicts), and better, ensures that the Outcasts' lackeys who use the Cardamine they distribute remain loyal to the Outcasts in the future."
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