Economy / Barges - Ores storage capacity

[Zentor]

and now the market corrects itself.

Not really how markets tend to work. Why would PoB owners not want their entire stock bought up by a Barge? Not like the Barge pays less.

Why would I go out of my way to make my product get sold out slower with absolutely no benefit? Why would I "tax" a player I want to do business with?

Except you forget POB's aren't designed to turn profits on storage whatsoever. Its really quite spectacular that players even bother selling ores for 0 profit and wasted time unless they do the janky switching prices and annoys traders when they arrive and cannot buy or cannot sell because of it being in one of the two "modes" while they switch prices.

Bases can currently only generate revenue from produced equipment.

Why WOULDN"T we give base owner more levers to turn and business utility? Not only does this give new and interesting ways to utilize them but can let them tailor their base usage to their planned RP or story, i.e. this base is a military outpost or some such, it doesn't allow transports docking, only combat vessels, or caps only, or snubs only etc.

And charging fees for use of the facilities makes total sense when considering the mountains of hours dumped into supplying upkeep

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#JusticeForBurgundy

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"Music gives Wings to the Mind, Soul to the Universe, and Life to Everything"

[Haste]

Except you forget POB's aren't designed to turn profits on storage whatsoever. Its really quite spectacular that players even bother selling ores for 0 profit and wasted time unless they do the janky switching prices and annoys traders when they arrive and cannot buy or cannot sell because of it being in one of the two "modes" while they switch prices.

Bases can currently only generate revenue from produced equipment.

I used to just "Buy [Mined Stuff] up to 50,000", then switched it over to "Sell [Mined Stuff] for +500 credits, up to 0 left". Worked fine. It required a login a day or so back then but that's hardly a steep cost for what is effectively passive income.

Perhaps players wouldn't have such troubles with "too much demand" if they priced their wares according to demand.

That is how markets work.

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[Zentor]

Except you forget POB's aren't designed to turn profits on storage whatsoever. Its really quite spectacular that players even bother selling ores for 0 profit and wasted time unless they do the janky switching prices and annoys traders when they arrive and cannot buy or cannot sell because of it being in one of the two "modes" while they switch prices.

Bases can currently only generate revenue from produced equipment.

I used to just "Buy [Mined Stuff] up to 50,000", then switched it over to "Sell [Mined Stuff] for +500 credits, up to 0 left". Worked fine. It required a login a day or so back then but that's hardly a steep cost for what is effectively passive income.

Perhaps players wouldn't have such troubles with "too much demand" if they priced their wares according to demand.

That is how markets work.

Yes this is the switching price modes I referred to and is backward and silly, at any given point, half your "customers" cannot operate your business. Very dumb.

Imagine going to your local market in the real world and finding out that they are only buying product from you today, but tomorrow you can come back to make a purchase from them. Its unbelievable that POB's as storage lasted this long. But we are drifting from the OP's topic now.

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#JusticeForBurgundy

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"Music gives Wings to the Mind, Soul to the Universe, and Life to Everything"

[Sally]

If Barges are sufficiently viable for powertrading that they are becoming a problem for PoB storage purposes, that means the Barge is too good as that implies it is out-performing 5Ks, which is not the intent.

The reason powertrading is feasible with Barges has been mentioned by Couden, not a lot of people bothers to pirate or bother barges because they either don't give a sh*t about getting killed or will F1 before getting caught, they may be easy targets but with the current player count, they will keep disconnecting out of scan range the moment they suspect someone is after them, some imbecile got sanctioned for doing that several times recently.
I can guarantee you, nothing of value will be lost if Barges are gone, not with the current activity, I hope the economy rework makes them even more useless to the game as a whole as well.
Also, since Couden mentioned it, even if the dev team decides to keep them around, i think it would make sense if these at the very least dropped a part of the loot when getting shot down, as far as I know, other regular transports do drop ~3K cargo when killed.

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[Xenon]

Hello Ladies and Gents,

I can see from your replies a lot of valid points, and a lot of other side points which you had to discuss because it's related to that topic. I think that ideas like "Remove the barge" or "Limit its access very strictly" are not really what we want here. No matter if you are a supporter of trading with barges or not, We must respect everyone's opinion indeed. I just want to clarify that there are always solutions that can satisfy a large sector of the community members and remember that you will never satisfy everyone.

There are very constructive replies from many players, and I thank you for that guys. This is how a civilized community should discuss a matter. It should not be just criticism but always provide what you can say from solutions and suggestions so it becomes constructive. Getting straight to the point, I was trying to discuss here how to evade the negative effect of the barge against the economy and POBs especially. I think that if barges can only sell to POBs and cannot buy commodities from POBs will solve the problem. That will still give the barge a chance to buy from solid bases and to get ores from miners in space at the mining fields for selling at the highest sell point or for supplying a base.

I understand @St.Denis points although I believe that a solution can be found even within the low population that we have.
I also appreciate @Haste and @Zentor replies, You both got a valid point of view that is worthy of discussion.
Remarkable opinions from @LuckyOne @Cmdr.Stormpilot @Front de Libération de Gallia @Kalhmera @ViciousJeff @Whesto and @Mr.Jamison
I can see your fears @Chenzo- about the barges. If the barges cannot buy from POBs, then they can still receive from miners ores at the field
I am not saying that trading with barges should be removed @TheKusari my friend. I am only suggesting removing its ability to buy from a POB but can sell to it and buy from miners and any other bases, so the trading will continue with it - I am just trying to evade the lack of mining operations because since barges can empty POBs very fast and we don't have enough mining operations then the bases stay without ores to offer for lots of days.... and the clients cannot find ores around for trading for a long time.
@BobMacaroni makes a great point from my perspective. Enhancing mining is one great key. I salute you for those very good opinions dude.
@"Racerdude" mentioned a good point also about making mining operations not targeted easy.

Please keep those replies coming, because I believe that a game mod with a balance accepted by a large sector of the community is a successful mod.

Have a good evening discovery

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[Chenzo-]

There is literally zero difference in favour of barge over a 5k. The time it takes to fly a barge across Sirius, you can fly a 5k 7 or 8 times in the same route, given NPC's spinning you, the ridiculously slow speed in which it moves, a minute and a half to engage cruise speed to a maximum of 100, Pirates who log, take 50ish+ M off you then log for all of 3 minutes "work" of their F1'd char in space. A barge also has to deal with the fact it costs about 110M to buy Ores from bases at current PoB owners set prices- a risk when blown up leaving around 3k units for the destroying party.

Let's assume barges take things faster, which they don't:

A barge taking however many units from your PoB if you are a miner is actually a good thing, your revenue pot from which to earn is then increased. You mine, you fill the PoB, you get your credits for doing so.

Now, if PoB's could be fixed to buy items for less then they sell them for, that would be perfect and a PoB owner could finally have a reason to allow the base to exist.

If a PoB owner wants to stock a little ore for themselves to ship, they can do so by setting numbers to sell/keep etc.

I'm sure that 100% of PoB's which stock ore are also filled by their owners.

Allowing each storage module to have a larger capacity would be a fantastic idea as a whole- or different types of storage which cost more to build depending on the capable capacity, or more modules per core.


The reasons Ore sells for so much is because it has to be mined, player time which goes into it.

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[Xenon]

There is literally zero difference in favour of barge over a 5k. The time it takes to fly a barge across Sirius, you can fly a 5k 7 or 8 times in the same route, given NPC's spinning you, the ridiculously slow speed in which it moves, a minute and a half to engage cruise speed to a maximum of 100, Pirates who log, take 50ish+ M off you then log for all of 3 minutes "work" of their F1'd char in space. A barge also has to deal with the fact it costs about 110M to buy Ores from bases at current PoB owners set prices- a risk when blown up leaving around 3k units for the destroying party.

Let's assume barges take things faster, which they don't:

A barge taking however many units from your PoB if you are a miner is actually a good thing, your revenue pot from which to earn is then increased. You mine, you fill the PoB, you get your credits for doing so.

Now, if PoB's could be fixed to buy items for less then they sell them for, that would be perfect and a PoB owner could finally have a reason to allow the base to exist.

If a PoB owner wants to stock a little ore for themselves to ship, they can do so by setting numbers to sell/keep etc.

I'm sure that 100% of PoB's which stock ore are also filled by their owners.

Allowing each storage module to have a larger capacity would be a fantastic idea as a whole- or different types of storage which cost more to build depending on the capable capacity, or more modules per core.


The reasons Ore sells for so much is because it has to be mined, player time which goes into it.

I see your point very clearly, and it makes sense.
I am considering the torture of NPCs to the barges by spinning them, etc...

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[Kanzler Niemann]

Haha people are afraid of economic imbalance in a game where you can print money by killing NPCs and selling their cargo

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[Mr.Jamison]

A pirate says:

From our perspective, the state of the Barge is now ideal.

(meaning slow, fat and incapable of defending itself)

Another pirate says:

Sorry for detail, but to that point it always baffled be lane hackers with spyglass scanner haven't hacked lanes to have /net.
I was actually surprised I didn't gain it when I bough the scanner.

Pirates think that godmode scanners and improved hacking weapons are a necessity for survival.
Meanwhile, zero transports over 3600 cargo even have Countermeasures, and requesting changes that
make losses to piracy even a little less ubiquitous are considered heresy.
Why? To make piracy easier and trading more difficult, as always. Bias exposed.

IMO, money piracy should be banned and Cargo Piracy the only type allowed.
The typical answer to complaints about piracy are "run convoys, hire escorts! Increase RP."
And yet the response to Cargo Piracy only and ending "pay or Die!" will certainly be "but, but, but.... we'd have to pirate as a convoy!"

The imbalance of RP and Preparation expectations is startlingly disjointed.

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[Aingar]

Meanwhile, zero transports over 3600 cargo even have Countermeasures

Acshually:
-Barge itself (lol)
-Gallic Super Train (an SRP but technically it does)
-Whale
-Kusari Tanker
-Luxury Liner
-Pilgrim Liner
-Gallic Train (4250 cargo one)
-Gallic Blackmarket Transport
-Gallic Liner
-Renzu Liner