Gunboat balance question.

[tansytansey]

First thing, lets get this straight. This is not a complaint thread, or a request for a nerf.
This is also not a discussion, this is a direct question to the developers/balance team. It's simply a question about a detail I came across today regarding the Kusari Explorer.

I'm not much of a Gunboat pilot, but I'm messed around with them in openSP, and I know a Rogue Gunboat can only fire 3 Razors before its power plant is completely drained. So it struck me as odd when I fought a Kusari Explorer today which was continuously chainfiring three or four razors. It was bothering me and I couldn't sleep, so I decided to check it out, tested it in game first, then checked it's stats in FLstat and in the ini files.

To say the least, I was shocked. This gunboat has the largest Gunboat powerplant available (I figured that much myself) but not only that, it appears to turn faster than a lot of other Gunboats in the game, and has more Bots/Bats than any other Gunboat save the Salvage Frigate. It's only down side appears to be that it has 100,00 armour, which isn't even the lowest Gunboat armour. I don't really understand fully how the turning values work with Freelancer. I checked the ini files, and it seems to me that the Kusari Explorer also turns very fast for a 'heavy' Gunboat, and It certainly doesn't feel much slower than a Rogue Gunboat. I have my doubts, but from looking at the values it looks to be the case. Size comparisons in hardCMP reveal that this Gunboat isn't extraordinarily large either, the Bretonian Gunboat has a larger front profile, and although the Rhienland Gunboat has a narrow front profile, it has a larger side profile than the Kusari Explorer. On top of that, the Gunboat also boasts 7 turrets, while the majority of Gunboats only sport 6, with only very few Gunboats mounting 7 or 8.

What is the justification for this balance? I'm curious, and while it's nice to finally have a Gunboat that can take down a swarm of bombers, it seems odd that the Kusari Explorer is the one to do it.
It doesn't appear to be a skill factor, either. The same pilot two days ago flew an Outcast Gunship with full OC basics, and was easily destroyed by two Barghests without a scratch. Today, in a Kusari Explorer with three Razors, he's slaughtering squads of 4+ bombers in seconds. Sure, that's what Gunboats are supposed to do, I'm not denying that, or asking that Gunboats be incapable of that. (tbh I'm sick of gunboats being so easy to kill...) it just seems odd to me that the majority of Gunboats are incapable of this same feat, and that the Kusari Explorer is the one to do it.
It also seems very uncharacteristic of a Kusari corporation to build a large, heavy combat ship with a massive power core. It is in complete contrast to the typical Kusari combat ship. In fact, is the Explorer even a combat ship?

So, the facts are all out on the table, and something doesn't add up. So I'm asking what the deal is with the Kusari Explorer. Why it, and not other Gunboats? Other Gunboats could stand to be more like the Kusari Explorer, and I certainly haven't fought any other Gunboats that can even get close to killing a Bomber, let alone four. (each Gb being better than 4 bombers in a bit extreme. But he caught us all off guard with that tactic and we didn't know wtf to do xD)

Now I have to go try sleep. 3am, damn insomnia.

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[Markam]

I can answer this a little, the numbers in the shiparch relating to agility can be confusing, at a glance you can be fooled into thinking the wrong thing. While the jury is still out on if its unbalanced or not, the agility listed is actually not high at all, it's very different from most gunboats because it is actually the slowest of all gunboats, not the fastest.

you calculate agility by dividing the Steering Torque/Angular drag to determine turn speed, then Steering Torque/Rotation inertia for the speed at which the ship changes direction or 'dodging' (all explained by a post by mjolnir). I'm no expert at this, but I think you end up with;

KE
0.417 0.417 0.4295 2 2 2.4
Liberty gunboat
0.66 0.66 0.57 3.2 3.2 3.2

higher is better of course, the last three numbers are the reactions and the first three are pure xyz axis turning.

I'll say that this was actually brought up recently, i'm not sure exactly what is wrong with the KE, it has been able to turn on faster gunboats, but I sort of think that this is possible with most heavy gunboats to an extent (or I guess, they'd stand no chance), the chainfiring razors bit, it can fire 3 for just under half its core, a kusari missile is heavily spammable (it was balanced to the small kusari GB..). A big boon to it would be the central placing of 3 of its turrets, which is a very effective spot to put 3 razors. The 450 botts is pretty damned high (infocard says 350, its wrong), I think this was something to do with it having transport turning, and so.. botts? Well, either way I fear it has not been put to a lot of tests, and its a generic ship which hasnt got any clear enemies. I believe it will be looked at after a chain of incidents regarding it, not impossible for it to be bugged somewhere I suppose.

[Jinx]

especially when it comes to "turning" and nimbleness / agility of ships... - numbers may be true, but what really matters is how it feels.

the feeling very much depends on where the camera is positioned, too. - so you get the impression that for example a zoner juggernaut turns like a rattlesnake ( cause you get this motion blur of the particles when you turn ) even if its about the least agile ship in the game ( minus the special ships like barge ).

but when its about gunboats - the zoner GB is the most agile one of all GBs, the second most agile is the BHG GS - most of the rest was tested concerning their size / reactor size / weapons and of course agility. - the kusari explorer most certainly cannot out turn a rogue gunboat ( i haven t checked, but i think it can t )

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[jammi]

I thought there was a clause in it's infocard that meant only so many GB turrets could be used on it? And I had no problem killing the one I found in Leeds with my Waran.

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[SevereTrinity]

The person you are referring has been caught cheating. He chainfires 3 razors continuosly, turns faster than an Eagle, and has the refire on the razors upped.

[mjolnir]

It is by far the slowest GB (slower than a few Cruisers/Destroyers) and has 100k armor. Bretonian GB kills it in any 1vs1. And it's so slow that bombers kill it as well.

Other than that I'm told there were some people that "fixed" it to turn like and eagle and have unlimited powerplant, I was told they were "removed".
Guess it's one of those you saw.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[Violette]

For a second I thought you were on to something, as far as I've seen it's useless... Cept for exploring, it's purpose....

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[tansytansey]

Flying the explorer in openSP, it does feel slow. But when you compare it's turning to other Gunboats, it doesn't actually take much longer to make a 360 degree turn at all. I assume that means the responsiveness is slow, while the turning is about the same.
Even if that guy was cheating, fighting him felt like what fighting a Gunboat should be like. Dangerous for fighters and bombers. The fight was pretty exhillerating up until the point where I made a mistake and he hit me. Speaking from a bomber-whore point of view, Gunboats are rediculously easy to kill. I don't think they should be able to slaughter 4 bombers in seconds, but 2-3 bombers should be an even match for one Gunboat. Right now Gunboats only have an advantage 1v1 or if they have greater numbers. Two fighters can even bring down Gunboats, and for a ship that's supposed to be anti-fighter, that's pretty pathetic.

My main concerns about the Kusari Explorer were that it seems very combat orientated for an explorer vessel, and stats more akin to a Bretonian or Rhienland ship than a Kusari vessel.

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|Ashes and Draya's Epic Adventure|Ashes "Nighthawk" Yotaka|Nightfall|Eva Jones|
[5:50:49 PM] JakeSG (William Darkmoor) says: I like you, Ashes. You're more cynical than God.

[reavengitair]

The thing about the Kusari Explorer...

Well, basically, its pretty crap. Why? It handles worse than a transport! Its big, its fat, its bombermeat!