We'd need missiles that are actually worth using. I love missiles, and so I use them anyway, but everytime I feel frustration arise. They're so slow and easily CMed, even the high class ones that are supposed to be "better" have instead the same efficiency than the class 2 ones.
Missiles should be MUCH faster and have MUCH better turning rate, and someone should also solve that problem that makes any missile lose its tracking if even the smallest lump of debris passes between it and its target even for a second. It's ridiculous.
With effective missiles, everyone would be more encouraged to use them, fighter duels would have reduced time because missiles would add to the average damage dealt; no more boring dodging furballs lasting 1+ hours, no more lone LFs dodging an entire fleet's firepower for 30mins or more, etc. More realism, more action, less frustration, more equip variation, everybody wins.
Dont remove bot trading. If you do, you destroy the tactical side of group fights.
Dont buff fighter gun power, you destroy caps and transports.
Either:
a) Nerf Universal Armors. Like, halve them. Yes some caps that use them will be affected, but hey, guess what? They werent meant for caps anyway, caps have Capital Armors.
b) Nerf Fighter bots. The Sabre has 66 b/b. For what? I would be fine with it having 20.
c) Both a) and b). Seriously, it would make duels and group fights way faster, way more intense, and way more interesting. You would actually pay for your mistakes (like hitting a mine or eating a Razor shot).
I would be for reducing bots on fighters/bombers a bit, max about 50%.
(This was actually already implemented for 4.85 update 3 but then a lot of people were against it and scared Igiss.)
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However I do see bot trading as very problematic
Quote:bot trading is good actually- the smartest team wins if they can divide their bots good in fight - it is skill why to kill it?
Right now with current rules it makes for never ending fights (dock out of range, come with new bots).
Even in a normal fight it prolongs it for all parts, because until a ship dies it's shooting the same target in same enviroment. In extreme case the first ship dies after all bots of the group have been exhausted....which can take a few hours during which people mostly get bored.
Without bot trading the 1 ship will die much faster and one side will get an advantage speeding up the fight.
@Repair ship - prototype repair gun is already working
@Convoys - imo they are too hard to intercept now (if they focus on surviving/running and not on fighting), anyway transport guns can be changed a lot
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
It's not just the bots/bats, since it doesn't really change the concept of a fight. Agility and size will still be more important than anything. So, with bots and bata halved - with is a good thing, actually, but armor should be nerfed too - big and powerful ships will still die, but twice as fast.
Same thing with bots trading. Actually, i'd rather like it, it'd feel more realistic, with caps repaired by special repair gun and fighters repairing and resupplying on bases/carriers, but this still doesn't fix the main problem.
What about the gun dps idea that I have? Less dps for fighters- they could not be so effective versus caps and transports but more projective speed so you can hit more often and reduce the dodging effect?
Actually the currnet rules are fine- there are a plenty of ways to do instant kills- mines, missiles razors snacs, torpedoes and they do work well. And I see nothing wrong if organised groups of people use different tactics to win, after all tacics and player skill should be the two points that are needed for balance- not only the player skill.
My concerns about the proposed change is that there are two types of PvPers in disco-
1. The ones with the bad/average aim like me- I can still kill stuff but my aim is not perfect- I can easy kill 3-4 newbies alone but I cannot beat any of the let say 10-20 top PvPers in disco, I would say that 95% of the players around have my skills or a little worst/better then mine.
2. The ones with the good aim- they just do more dps in the same amount of time, if we exclude dodging and ship handling as factor - because they are easy to learn over time but look only on the aiming skills- you cannot make your reflexes better. Don't get me wrong I am np to get killed by better then me but it does not mean that the balance should be in favour of the few who have been born with good reflexes and have good aim.
So you should balance the fights in favour of the 90% of the people because Sabre with 20 bots in skilful hands is as effective as Sabre with 66 bots- this does not count for the rest 90% of the server population.
So my proposal is to make hitting easier except of reducing the whole hull amount. Because I can grantee you that good PvPer with Sabre with 20 bots will kill 5 sabres with 20 bots alone but wont be able to do so if they all have 66 bots. Now imagine if you put those people together-4 5 of them in group fight - the other side would never have chance to win actually, and yes the pro PvPers do play mostly in 3-4 factions all together right now.
I know because even now I have won 2 vs 7 together with someone who just don't miss till I dodge the fire even that I am not that good dodger.
Same with the bombers- I notice it is damn easy to razor barghests and pretorians even thors- but razoring roc or FA bomber / RM bomber is hard task, same with killing it with cap ship. Why the currnet BS solaris are damn effective and good? Because they have good refire rate and extreme good projective speed, you cannot say the same for the cruiser solaris for example, projective speed compensate for the aiming skills.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
I think we need 3 changes to make Disco more balanced. They are easy to implement:
1. Reduce Bots and Batteries of all Snubs by 1/4 or 1/3
2. Increase the velocity of fighter gun projectiles by 100m/s across the board
3. Reduce the range of the SNAC to ~1100m
Number 1: Reduction of fighting time against snubs, caps can fight them more efficiently
Number 2: Fighters can kill other snubs easier now, the endless dodging and the heavy advantage of small-sized ships would be countered a bit. Escort fighters could fullfill their role much better and intercept attackers more efficiently.
Number 3: Bombers will have to take more risk in order to kill capitals.
Gunboat vs Bomber will not be affected, because bombers do already have to close in in order to hit. A 2000m SNAC-snipe can be dodged easily in a GB.
Cruiser vs Bomber will bring Cruisers in a much better position. Currently, their are the most vulnerable ships, in my opinion. Slowly turning guns, short range on Anti-Snub weaponry and larger size make them easy prey for 2-3 Snubs.
Battleship vs Bomber will also benefit the slow and sluggish Battleships that cannot defend themselves against Snubs efficiently. A SNAC has almost the doubled range of a Solaris and there is no need for a bomber to come much closer than 1.5k to hit a BS.
' Wrote:I think we need 3 changes to make Disco more balanced. They are easy to implement:
1. Reduce Bots and Batteries of all Snubs by 1/4 or 1/3
2. Increase the velocity of fighter gun projectiles by 100m/s across the board
You do realize these are huge changes right?
Try fighting a turret-steering GB with VHFs or bombers than have 1/4 of the current number of bots it's quite different.
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Also if you just add 100 m/s to everything the fast guns that are already easy to hit with (750m/s ones) will get just a bit better. The 600 m/s guns that are hard to hit with will get a lot more hits.
Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.
' Wrote:Try fighting a turret-steering GB with VHFs or bombers than have 1/4 of the current number of bots it's quite different.
To be honest, I dont think 2 Fighters are supposed to take out a Gunboat anyway. But yeah, that will make Gunboats really strong.
How about putting around, 1/3 of the current bots on fighters and increasing the Fighter gun damage?
I think that will make Fighter fights/duels faster, and it wont make them OP against caps because of the stronger guns cuz, well, they will have 1/3 of their current bots. It will even it out.