POBs + Mining system = broken mechanic.

[LaWey]

Hm think, sand say all aspects, i want add also, but dont know how said proper.
I think some peoples should agreed with that facts:
1) We have PoBs because activity less, not activity less because of PoB. Stop remembering old times, that gone and you cannot return it.
2) WP platforms in mining fields really abusive. PoBs near\in mining fields abusive, but needed, because we dont have much of players, and some time zones really can drop away from game without that.

So..maybe we should give something for really solo mining? Can we do big damn mining barge, like orca or rorqual in eve and prohibite it to dock in mining fields?

[Marvin]

Sand_Spider, no word to much in your post.

I think you have a great oversight. Experience, knowing how to express yourself, and social competence can cause such things.

Well so if i get it right, the root of the problem and main reason for the discussion is the possible quickdocking evading rp, the defenseturrets in miningfields, and also a bit the docking rights.

Maybee there can be found a solution which is easyer then to move all existing bases, or remove them, or move whole minefileds etc...

*POB's used for mining, closer than 15k to the border miningzones have to bee open bases to any ID.
*Docking to intentionally evade RP is not allowed on this POB's
*Defenseturrets are not legal on POB's closer than 15k to the border of a mining-zone.

That was just quick brainstorm based on how i understand the actual "problem", not even a solution, but may a good direction?

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[Binski]

1. We outright forbid making POBs an X distance from any given mining field, regardless of core level. Any existing POB is either moved or refunded to the owner/s.
2. We remove the attack deceleration requirements from bases inside of mining fields, allowing anyone to destroy such new bases on a whim.
3. If players start whining about their property - move the field instead.

I think it makes sense to set a minimum distance for any POB. At least, 10k? Most mining areas can justify 'environmental concerns' like radiation being the reason they can't be too close.

Don't agree with removing attack declaration for those bases though, there's still a lot of work and activity going into them, just making them go poof by surprise doesn't help our player base. For every pirate missing out, there's 2-3 people operating the base, and at least that many more that will use it to buy commodities. That all encourages activity, profit, and its like in any free market, the more the merrier.

As for area denial via weapons platforms, well, I feel like in some places it legit kills the ability to play around mining and miners as a pirate. However, it may depend on the area. What faction is operating the base? The real question is, do any factions have ZOI in the area in question that can mount any significant resistance, even on independent parties' behalfs?

In Texas for example, if someone sets up a legal base out by the scrap field, and wanted to use tons of weapons to cordon off the area, there are basically no factions with ZOI that can (or would have reason) to do anything about it. Junkers can't siege a base like that, maybe the Rogues? I guess I haven't checked if its legal to do so under Liberty law, but probably with permission, they can all be armed. So if Liberty let it go, what would happen? What if freelancers or Xenos denied the area to Junkers or anyone...could sufficient inrp resistance solve the problem? Probably not. So the placement rules could be changed, or factions involved could be given more to respond. If no factions can be involved, maybe its time we opened up the pirate cruiser to the pirate ID again, or FL ID, so independents could on their own, mount some kind of attempt at doing something about it inrp themselves. I always prefer to see those options explored first, before completely prohibiting certain kinds of player activity.

So say in Tau-23 miners do the same thing, at least the OC's can mount the ships necessary to take the base out. If it can be solved inrp, I say that should happen first. If no one's willing, and you care about it enough, time to do it yourself, get that OC ID, buy a battleship. Enjoy the experience, don't see it as work, but a challenge.

In Nagano, if Samura tried area denial of the Plantinum fields, the Dragons could mount the ships to do something. But its true, currently, if there is no will or way inrp, independents don't have many options, even expensive ones, to counter, save for staring new RP, faction involvement, and organizing around its removal.

TBH, due to stuff like this, I evolved from stalking mining fields to being a straight up trade lane pirate for 2 years now. I hate to say it,but I'm still pro freedom enough to say people should be able to build within 10-15k of a mining field, and use defenses. Really, 1 pirate or small group of mauraders probably shouldn't be able to beat a well run base in that situation. So, inrp, if a base is really getting in the way, something should only be done oorp if all inrp possibilities have been exhausted. Go to the local factions who have ZOI for that area, and if they can't or won't, adjustment could be considered if its really going to ruin things on the long term.

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[Darkseid667]

...
*POB's used for mining, closer than 15k to the border miningzones have to bee open bases to any ID.
*Docking to intentionally evade RP is not allowed on this POB's
*Defenseturrets are not legal on POB's closer than 15k to the border of a mining-zone.

That was just quick brainstorm based on how i understand the actual "problem", not even a solution, but may a good direction?

Placing POBs at least 15k from the mining zone is basically the rule of each major house already. If you want to build a legal base, you have to stick with the local laws and the local mining faction wants a say in this matter anyway. I think this is a good distance, 20k would be less convenient, but still okay. And you mustn't build weapon platforms without forum RP with the local law enforcement factions anyway.

Concerning RP in the mining fields:
Our BMM-Goldgeist (Dublin) is about 15-16 k away from the edge and about 20k away from the middle of the mining zone. We have a few loyal miners that frequent us and fill the base up a little, but if we don't pull some concentrated mining effort to fill the base, these contributions wouldn't be enough to fill the needs of the traders that buy here (even official trading factions from Rheinland buy here occasionally). So yes, POBs run out of ore, eventually.
The local official mining player factions like BMF usually don't sell at our station, while they do fill up their own stations with concentrated efforts, too (just not at 5 a.m. MET, and usually without fighter escorts). So we station owners don't kill the RP in the mining zone.

[DSE|=]

?

Darkseid667
Placing POBs at least 15k from the mining zone is basically the rule of each major house already. If you want to build a legal base, you have to stick with the local laws and the local mining faction wants a say in this matter anyway.

Bretonia says no closer than 10km from a JH, minefield.
Liberty has a much libertarian view. The will approve a POB in a minefield and they will approve a POB very close to a JH depending on the RP.
Kusari says nothing on POB's in mining zones that I can see.
Rheinland has no ban but has given exclusive rights.
Gallia has nothing on this.

It is as I have said. The server restriction does not stop a POB being built. It restricts it to Core 2.

The Various houses are the proper authorities who should set their own rules and enforce the rules. If the base is legally applied for and built correctly, then that is the end of the matter.

POB's in minefields do NOT curtail RP. It encourages them as they are a point of gathering.

[Festus McBoyle]

Can you stop saying Veltman & it's platforms are 4 - 5 km above the field please,
we all know it's right inside the field.

I check out Veltman Smelter. It isn't in the field. It is about 5 K above the field.

I've never been a big miner but I must say that Veltman being there puts me off for
fear of hitting it and having the sanctions you were asking about in the first place.
Not sure if that was the tactic from the start but it's working for me anyway.

Nothin to it. Flew around and did some mining and it did nothin' so I did a drive-by shootin' and it nearly took my wee craft out... and then I was safe three k's away, so no worries fer the miners... because it is 4-5 ks above the minefield. Probably that is the reason, so no one can accidentally on purpose shoot it.

Big sook Nova. o.0

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