Ok, then I did say lack thereof - point stands, it seems pretty ridiculous.
Your issue isnt with TAZ and OSI - your issue is with a local entity, and your dragging everyone into it, even folks who have been very helpful to you in the past, and very friendly, as a way to force change from a localized entity.
Your basically saying "we have no problem shooting our friends to get what we want."
' Wrote:Ok, then I did say lack thereof - point stands, it seems pretty ridiculous.
Your issue isnt with TAZ and OSI - your issue is with a local entity, and your dragging everyone into it, even folks who have been very helpful to you in the past, and very friendly, as a way to force change from a localized entity.
Your basically saying "we have no problem shooting our friends to get what we want."
Our issue is with TAZ and OSI, as they are the ones with the power to fix it. Other Zoners are being targeted to put pressure on these two groups who are the only ones with the power to fix it. Hopefully, Zoners will realize that, and put pressure on the TAZ and OSI to do what is right. Then the problem is fixed, but no we arent shooting our "friends" Zoners have never really been "friends" of the Corsairs, just suppliers, and not even well trusted ones if you read the vanilla lore. If we don't target Zoners, there is absolutely no motivation for them to fix the problem, as we can see through the good relations TAZ and OSI have had with the Sairs over the years, and even with that, they are not willing to fix the situation. So yes, pressure is being put on, and in a way that is completely consistent with the way Corsairs handle things in rp. I have been a Corsair leader for longer than anyone in Disco, I know what it is to rp a Corsair. You don't like the roleplay that is laid out for the Corsairs, that is your issue, not mine.
' Wrote:This has nothing to do with you or your connections to the Omicroners, it has to do with putting pressure on all Zoners to put pressure on the factions to fix the problem.
And this is called terrorism. Corsairs can get pretty nasty sometimes I guess.
' Wrote:Second, If I was a corsair player having to suffer constant invasion everyday, etc, I'd probably be just as vocal about it as the rest of you. My issue's with the corsair faction have been its representation by its players, not its reaction to the rp of others.
Needs more sparta, and less mexican gangbanger, for one.
Well, this is how you would like to see it. Personaly I grew a bit tired of all those orphan children, hot chicks rp as well as knights and honorable guys who gonna save entire universe. In terms of roleplay there is nothing for sairs to be "honourable" warriors. Then it comes to survival there is no time to play knights.
' Wrote:Our issue is with TAZ and OSI, as they are the ones with the power to fix it. Other Zoners are being targeted to put pressure on these two groups who are the only ones with the power to fix it. Hopefully, Zoners will realize that, and put pressure on the TAZ and OSI to do what is right. Then the problem is fixed, but no we arent shooting our "friends" Zoners have never really been "friends" of the Corsairs, just suppliers, and not even well trusted ones if you read the vanilla lore. If we don't target Zoners, there is absolutely no motivation for them to fix the problem, as we can see through the good relations TAZ and OSI have had with the Sairs over the years, and even with that, they are not willing to fix the situation. So yes, pressure is being put on, and in a way that is completely consistent with the way Corsairs handle things in rp. I have been a Corsair leader for longer than anyone in Disco, I know what it is to rp a Corsair. You don't like the roleplay that is laid out for the Corsairs, that is your issue, not mine.
Why should the OSI, and even more the TAZ comply rp wise? If Corsairs are not considering them to be friends (sounds realistic) it's being perceived mutually. That's what I'd expect. If so, and if the situation is boiling up in the Omicrons, why should the TAZ or the OSI comply, rp wise? What is the profit for selling food, compared to recent activities of the OSI in Gallia? Or how much should the TAZ spend their resources to keep an entrance to Corsair Space, while they could perhaps gain allies against Gallia much closer to them? Do they have unlimited resources? Why should they even care for the Zoners in the Omicrons? Please keep in mind that mostly Corsair players were stressing the point of independent Zoner Bases, thus forcing a fundamental change of Zoner RP instruments (given: no global Zoner cooperation), and also castrating it, but now you're expecting influence of the TAZ and the OSI on the Zoners in the Omicrons?
Let's go a bit further ... how probable would it be for the TAZ and the OSI, after having already given in to Corsair demands once (ZTC vs. Sairs), to take care of Corsair wishes if thinking "Uh, we've had that already, and we've shown enough will to submit to their demands, and now they're coming again with their issues with some distand 'brethren'?". The markets Corsairs provide aren't any match with other opportunities in Sirius. You cannot properly bait a Zoner into trade relations, so you should do nothing, as I think it's very probable that any Zoner not living in the Omicrons would not care much, to nothing, for Zoners living there.
Having two options left, neither should be an actual option:
1. You're stressing the necessity for Zoners to reunite (thanks for the bitching back then ... then)
2. You're making sure the TAZ and the OSI pull out to have easier access to Theta (sounds more realistic according to the present Sair rp being uber-conquerors)
Tbh, both is fubar.
Seeing the Zoners splintering into small groups after they abandoned a central body, it's not realistic to expect from any of them, neither TAZ, nor OSI, to claim influence in the Omicrons. There is nothing to gain, and a Zoner would actually behave according to "once burnt, twice shy" (Zoners have reasons to avoid colonial power, and Sair RP by your definition is nothing else).
If you're pushing for the second option, which is at least stringent Sair rp, you must very certainly answer further questions:
If the Zoner bases were important for the Corsair Empire before, why do you think Corsairs could ever compensate losing them? Conquering them means to lose them, since a Corsair base isn't a Zoner base, and anything meaningful the Zoners bore for the Corsairs would forever be lost. If they aren't useful, why have they been before?
A strange variance of the conquering option would be to determine "friendly" Zoners who actually don't mind to mate with a predator, but you cannot answer the question concerning their core RP, being on neutral stances with everybody, because nobody could ever approve them as being neutral (no Zoners anymore), so the only real conquering option would be to take Theta for the Sairs, and let us assume nobody but Zoners would care, what would you expect the TAZ and the OSI to do, let us ignore the fact that you're going to annoy the GMG (or is a "guild" nothing more but a kind of Zoners?)
I've used "fubar", because the OSI and the TAZ are very far away, and they are not as much interested in anything going on in the Omicrons - Zoners or Corsair markets - as they are in avoiding further demands they have actually satisfied once. Demanding it twice and expecting a compliance isn't realistic, because any House bears more reliability than the Corsair Empire, so you're basically expecting that the Zoners are not behaving like Zoners, and I think you neither can, nor should demand that.
(Further options like Corsairs paying for Zoner services in order to make Corsair business under these circumstance more realistic would serve the Zoner rp, but would it be Corsair rp?)
That's for the rp.
Personally I'd prefer to put massive pressure on the TAZ and the OSI, but also work towards a reunion of all Zoners. It's realistic in case the Corsairs are accepting their crucial dependence of their bases, thus being forced to spare them, for all times, which would very certainly demand a change of Corsair RP towards all Zoners (actually every affiliation is forced to treat Zoners outside their usual patterns, or they do not want to approve they're Zoners).
A dilemma, and I'm really curious to see how this is going to be reforged.
Well, despite all the bollocks and contradictions here in this thread, I am sad to see the Omicroners as a faction go down the tubes.
Whilst I do feel that there were some who were desperate for chaos among their ranks, I was recently re-assured (and surprised) to find that this was not the case for all.
I wish it had been a smoother ride for all concerned and as I stated earlier, I'm sorry for it's demise.
' Wrote:Why should the OSI, and even more the TAZ comply rp wise? If Corsairs are not considering them to be friends (sounds realistic) it's being perceived mutually. That's what I'd expect. If so, and if the situation is boiling up in the Omicrons, why should the TAZ or the OSI comply, rp wise? What is the profit for selling food, compared to recent activities of the OSI in Gallia? Or how much should the TAZ spend their resources to keep an entrance to Corsair Space, while they could perhaps gain allies against Gallia much closer to them? Do they have unlimited resources? Why should they even care for the Zoners in the Omicrons? Please keep in mind that mostly Corsair players were stressing the point of independent Zoner Bases, thus forcing a fundamental change of Zoner RP instruments (given: no global Zoner cooperation), and also castrating it, but now you're expecting influence of the TAZ and the OSI on the Zoners in the Omicrons?
Let's go a bit further ... how probable would it be for the TAZ and the OSI, after having already given in to Corsair demands once (ZTC vs. Sairs), to take care of Corsair wishes if thinking "Uh, we've had that already, and we've shown enough will to submit to their demands, and now they're coming again with their issues with some distand 'brethren'?". The markets Corsairs provide aren't any match with other opportunities in Sirius. You cannot properly bait a Zoner into trade relations, so you should do nothing, as I think it's very probable that any Zoner not living in the Omicrons would not care much, to nothing, for Zoners living there.
Having two options left, neither should be an actual option:
1. You're stressing the necessity for Zoners to reunite (thanks for the bitching back then ... then)
2. You're making sure the TAZ and the OSI pull out to have easier access to Theta (sounds more realistic according to the present Sair rp being uber-conquerors)
Tbh, both is fubar.
Seeing the Zoners splintering into small groups after they abandoned a central body, it's not realistic to expect from any of them, neither TAZ, nor OSI, to claim influence in the Omicrons. There is nothing to gain, and a Zoner would actually behave according to "once burnt, twice shy" (Zoners have reasons to avoid colonial power, and Sair RP by your definition is nothing else).
If you're pushing for the second option, which is at least stringent Sair rp, you must very certainly answer further questions:
If the Zoner bases were important for the Corsair Empire before, why do you think Corsairs could ever compensate losing them? Conquering them means to lose them, since a Corsair base isn't a Zoner base, and anything meaningful the Zoners bore for the Corsairs would forever be lost. If they aren't useful, why have they been before?
A strange variance of the conquering option would be to determine "friendly" Zoners who actually don't mind to mate with a predator, but you cannot answer the question concerning their core RP, being on neutral stances with everybody, because nobody could ever approve them as being neutral (no Zoners anymore), so the only real conquering option would be to take Theta for the Sairs, and let us assume nobody but Zoners would care, what would you expect the TAZ and the OSI to do, let us ignore the fact that you're going to annoy the GMG (or is a "guild" nothing more but a kind of Zoners?)
I've used "fubar", because the OSI and the TAZ are very far away, and they are not as much interested in anything going on in the Omicrons - Zoners or Corsair markets - as they are in avoiding further demands they have actually satisfied once. Demanding it twice and expecting a compliance isn't realistic, because any House bears more reliability than the Corsair Empire, so you're basically expecting that the Zoners are not behaving like Zoners, and I think you neither can, nor should demand that.
(Further options like Corsairs paying for Zoner services in order to make Corsair business under these circumstance more realistic would serve the Zoner rp, but would it be Corsair rp?)
That's for the rp.
Personally I'd prefer to put massive pressure on the TAZ and the OSI, but also work towards a reunion of all Zoners. It's realistic in case the Corsairs are accepting their crucial dependence of their bases, thus being forced to spare them, for all times, which would very certainly demand a change of Corsair RP towards all Zoners (actually every affiliation is forced to treat Zoners outside their usual patterns, or they do not want to approve they're Zoners).
A dilemma, and I'm really curious to see how this is going to be reforged.
I am always amazed at what a black and white thinker you are.
' Wrote:Our issue is with TAZ and OSI, as they are the ones with the power to fix it. Other Zoners are being targeted to put pressure on these two groups who are the only ones with the power to fix it. Hopefully, Zoners will realize that, and put pressure on the TAZ and OSI to do what is right.
' Wrote:I am always amazed at what a black and white thinker you are.
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