You've done nothing essentially wrong. However, most pirates don't actually pirate to make money. When I pirate, I enjoy the interaction and the chase. If I shoot someone and he flies off into the middle of nowhere saying nothing, I am not going to have fun. From the angry pms I get, I don't think the person cruising also has fun. Remember, as a trader, you always have time to respond. The mean armor of Transports is greater than the mean armor of Gunboats; there is time for a transport to respond. Just because guns are going off does not mean the talk has ended. It means that someone is trying to scare you.
And yes, "Two million or die" is the basic interaction between a pirate and a trader. Unless someone can pull at my heartstrings, why compromise when I know I can kill someone? It's not a difficult RP decision if I say "Oh, well, you have kids. I know what it's like. I have kids." and compromise. I also have kids and I want my kids to do better than your kids. This means I'm going to steal. I don't have to talk about politics to steal your money. As a character, if you don't want to explode, you'll do SOMETHING to try and sate me. That's a principle I keep on my traders, and quite frankly I don't think enough people realize that a small compartment of air in the vacuum of space is not a comfortable position right after millions of credits has turned into fire around you.
So, really, nothing wrong, but it might have been a bit rude.:P
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
@However, most pirates don't actually pirate to make money.
- Explain the 2milRdai kind:).
If the pirates did a lot of typing it would be polite (OORP decision) to talk to them. Of course, trader RP dictates that you reach safety first. On the same principle "bad luck, pal" is better then "loser!", because the next time... pew, pew, boom!.
Feel free to PM me regarding any grammar/spelling/other language mistakes I have made in my posts.
Actually I would say the onus of RP fall squarely on the pirates shoulder.
He is the one who initiates RP as well as the only one who can decide the outcome of a one vs one engagement.
Transports are made intentionally weak to the point I have never met a transport in my fighter that I could not beat, and I am not very good in my fighter.
The trader is left with two options, one is to fight and go down in a blaze of glory against supperior forces.
The other is to give in and either pay what the pirate wants or die.
Everytime the trader talks before attempting to run, he has chosen the second route.
Now don't get me wrong, I have met many a good pirate and trader, but I can not accept that "most" pirates do not do it for money.
If I am a trader and I meet the 2 mill or dai pirate, that ruins all my fun as if I come out from a jumpgate and he is there, then there is no escape except for if he is incompetent.
On the other side, I do not mind the silent trader as much as I am in control of the situation.
Every time a trader has escaped me it has been due to my own mistake, not anything the trader has done.
I feel if you wish for a better RP experience, the first thing to do would be to equalise the combat effectivness both sides bring to the engagement.
Then both sides have the same confidence that they might win or lose.
The matter has been answered time and time again in this thread. OP, you were in the right in terms of rules. In terms of RP, you may have caused a situation in which RP could not flourish by responding. Yet, it is still within your rights to run without saying a single thing.
[The_Angels]Mortis
I am [The_Angels]Mortis. If you need help regarding the rules, the game, or just need someone to talk to, feel free to contact me on skype or PM me.
' Wrote:@However, most pirates don't actually pirate to make money.
- Explain the 2milRdai kind:).
If the pirates did a lot of typing it would be polite (OORP decision) to talk to them. Of course, trader RP dictates that you reach safety first. On the same principle "bad luck, pal" is better then "loser!", because the next time... pew, pew, boom!.
Essentially, every pirate interaction is give me X or die. Let me give you an example of some of my poor RP...
As you can see, I ask the person for three million credits because he is supporting my enemy. Is this not reasonable to expect a response? I'm in a Centurion, so regardless of whether or not I am shooting, the person has plenty of time to respond. Heck, there are even 3 BAF in system for him to call on for support. Fighting a Salvager with Basics while 3 Templars are on you is not very easy. But as you can see, this transport takes no opportunity in the 15 minutes that he is getting shot to type a response.
But somehow, I am the person who gets pmed about how poor my RP is. I am told that I am a horrible pirate and I should RP more. I do not believe in a 2 million or die pirate. I believe there are bad pirates who can flesh out their characters much more than they are, but I believe that traders need to realize that pirates are there to take their money, and the more they interact, the better their chances of getting away are.
' Wrote:Actually I would say the onus of RP fall squarely on the pirates shoulder.
He is the one who initiates RP as well as the only one who can decide the outcome of a one vs one engagement.
Transports are made intentionally weak to the point I have never met a transport in my fighter that I could not beat, and I am not very good in my fighter.
The trader is left with two options, one is to fight and go down in a blaze of glory against superior forces.
The other is to give in and either pay what the pirate wants or die.
Everytime the trader talks before attempting to run, he has chosen the second route.
Now don't get me wrong, I have met many a good pirate and trader, but I can not accept that "most" pirates do not do it for money.
If I am a trader and I meet the 2 mill or dai pirate, that ruins all my fun as if I come out from a jumpgate and he is there, then there is no escape except for if he is incompetent.
On the other side, I do not mind the silent trader as much as I am in control of the situation.
Every time a trader has escaped me it has been due to my own mistake, not anything the trader has done.
I feel if you wish for a better RP experience, the first thing to do would be to equalize the combat effectiveness both sides bring to the engagement.
Then both sides have the same confidence that they might win or lose.
I pretty much disagree completely. What more can a pirate do besides ask for money? This is what a pirate does. It is then the responsibility of the trader to continue with talking if he wants talking. Look above. What more can I really do to talk? I even try and re-initiate talking. I simply have played my role and now it is the turn of the trader to say something. If he does not, he is going to get shot.
Transports are not weak in any meaning of the term. This idea stems from the thought that you must kill a pirate to win in this interaction. You don't. The last idea on a trader's mind should be to kill a pirate. The first thing should be how to survive and trick him. Transports play right into this. Look at Transport armor. The mean Transport armor is higher than the mean Gunboat armor. This means you can talk for a long time before a Fighter or a Gunboat's fire actually starts to bother you. Looking above, all it would take for this Junker to stop me from shooting him is saying "Well where are you going to dock when you kill me?" or he could say something like "I was just keeping my cover going. I take every 5th haul to the Newgate, but every other one goes to Tripoli." and then I can't say anything. However most of the time, traders resign themselves to death, saying nothing because they feel it's hopeless.
As someone who mostly pirates out there, I feel very dismayed when people say I or other pirates don't RP enough. There is nothing more I can say besides "I want to take your money." Quite frankly, I feel like the "Shift+W, F2" traders are a lot more to blame for bad interactions than me.
EDIT: Please tell me what more I am supposed to say to be a good RPer. I legitimately want to know. What more can I do to shoulder the interaction? I can't think of anything.
[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:49:19 AM] Elgatodiablo: You know its nice that you have all that proof and all, Bacon... but I just don't believe you.
Bacon, I don't think he means you need to do more than what you did.
He is speaking to the most common type of pirate. The ones that literally say, 2m or die, after they manage to stop you.
As for your bit about transports. I'll disagree, there is usually very little time to talk unless I'm bearing a capital armor upgrade or the pirate is like you. Most of the pirates aren't like you, they are the 2m or die type. Meaning if you don't pay them what they demand in around 30 seconds, they just kill you, ignoring any attempt to whittle the demand down.
No one is blaming you for bad interactions, not me at least. I honestly blame both sides. The traders who are never willing to talk and merely run and the pirates who aren't there to talk but to make a demand and if the demand isn't met get a blue message. There are more of those two types of people than there are our types, you being a pirate that actually role plays and will respond to role play, and me being a trader that role plays.
Don't get me wrong though. If I notice the pirate isn't moving and I think I could dust him before he has a chance I'll do it to teach him a lesson in addition to not having to pay him.
As you can see, I ask the person for three million credits because he is supporting my enemy. Is this not reasonable to expect a response? I'm in a Centurion, so regardless of whether or not I am shooting, the person has plenty of time to respond. Heck, there are even 3 BAF in system for him to call on for support. Fighting a Salvager with Basics while 3 Templars are on you is not very easy. But as you can see, this transport takes no opportunity in the 15 minutes that he is getting shot to type a response.
But somehow, I am the person who gets pmed about how poor my RP is. I am told that I am a horrible pirate and I should RP more. I do not believe in a 2 million or die pirate. I believe there are bad pirates who can flesh out their characters much more than they are, but I believe that traders need to realize that pirates are there to take their money, and the more they interact, the better their chances of getting away are.
I pretty much disagree completely. What more can a pirate do besides ask for money? This is what a pirate does. It is then the responsibility of the trader to continue with talking if he wants talking. Look above. What more can I really do to talk? I even try and re-initiate talking. I simply have played my role and now it is the turn of the trader to say something. If he does not, he is going to get shot.
Transports are not weak in any meaning of the term. This idea stems from the thought that you must kill a pirate to win in this interaction. You don't. The last idea on a trader's mind should be to kill a pirate. The first thing should be how to survive and trick him. Transports play right into this. Look at Transport armor. The mean Transport armor is higher than the mean Gunboat armor. This means you can talk for a long time before a Fighter or a Gunboat's fire actually starts to bother you. Looking above, all it would take for this Junker to stop me from shooting him is saying "Well where are you going to dock when you kill me?" or he could say something like "I was just keeping my cover going. I take every 5th haul to the Newgate, but every other one goes to Tripoli." and then I can't say anything. However most of the time, traders resign themselves to death, saying nothing because they feel it's hopeless.
As someone who mostly pirates out there, I feel very dismayed when people say I or other pirates don't RP enough. There is nothing more I can say besides "I want to take your money." Quite frankly, I feel like the "Shift+W, F2" traders are a lot more to blame for bad interactions than me.
EDIT: Please tell me what more I am supposed to say to be a good RPer. I legitimately want to know. What more can I do to shoulder the interaction? I can't think of anything.
What more a pirate can do besides ask for money is atleast throw a couple of extra words in there, pretty much like your screenshot shows.
I still say the onus is on the pirate and it looks like you did a good job of supplying as much as the target was asking for.
Once the trader has been CD'd he can explore one of three options available to him.
He can stop for some nice RP(hopefully), or he can make a run for it, maybe get caught maybe not( see my previeous post), or open up on the pirate (only a pirate who is typing or sleeping will normally die).
Option three is not very smart as you will tend to only kill the ones who were setting up for more RP, or the ones who are inept.
That leaves for me at least, two other choices.
I tend to go for option two, I run, if you catch me then good for you and have some money.
I will admit I tend not to talk until I am up to cruise speed.
But the "majority" of the time I have tried this the pirate will jack the price up to around 7 or 8 mill to teach me a lesson.
So I learn that they wish for me to just sit there, ok I can handle this.
While sitting there, I will try and weasel my way out of the full demand, but unfortunately "most" of the time I try this they cut me off and tell me that either the original amount still stands and I have 10 seconds to reply, or they jack the price up.
Ok so they want me to pay up with a minimum amount of talk back... cool, no problem.
So all is said and done, I have given them their money.
Now I try and talk about how much trouble I am going to be in, I get cut off and told to take a hike so they may continue to make money... I am starting to see a pattern here.
So I should stop, say "yes?", hand over my cash and leave quietly.
Tell me if this scenario describes someone who wants interaction or cash?
Not all encounters are like this and there are some very decent pirates out there, just as their are some great traders who I really enjoy stopping.
I don't want them to be nice, I don't want them to let me go, but I am a victim, not an ATM.
As I said before, I have the same problem with my victims, a lot are completely silent.
I am not talking about hitting cruise as soon as they see me, before I have made my demand.
I want them to do this, I love the chase.
I mean the ones that we all know about that do not answer at all, even when you stop firing and ask them to be reasonable and think of their families and future.
I know that unless I make a mistake, I will catch them.
When I do, they may start to RP with me then.
Either way, I am in control, they live or die by my choice.
This is why I do not mind the silent traders as much as I mind the "ATM" pirates, it is all about choice and control.
Ye, it's perfectly fine to silently cruisse away. But don't expect to be nicely treated if they catch you.
Now there is couple of things that stress out a pirate and makes him more trigger happy and less talkative:
1* Dragging time
2* Sitting near tradelane
3* Continue to move or cruisse away
4* Opening a transfer window and keeping it for no particular reason
5* Trying to fire on the pirate
All these things reduces any chat roleplay and makes pirate want to kill you. Or get over it as fast as possible. yet some people does one or couple of my mentioned things, gets blasted and then goes to Q_Q feedback threads or general on forums to bash pirates. If you ever have that wish, think about the situation you had, maybe you done one of the things mentioned in the list?
Both sides have valid arguments and stereotypes for justifications. But people seem to be forgetting the character architype of Discovery 24/7 RP server where pirates outnumber traders 2 to 1.
You reward good RP with RP, ignore poor RP. It's as easy as that.
2milordie = eat laser fire
Please donate 2 million credits to my cause or your escape pod will be floating in space a few seconds later = Tell me more about this "cause" and why should I care? Would 1 million credits not suffice? Please, I have a family to feed!
See the difference? Granted, this way poor RP players would never learn how to RP. But they don't deserve to play on this server anyway. I certainly wouldn't take the effort of roleplaying back if the other player clearly shows no interest in RP other than using me as a cash cow.
Well, it's more in RP to actually flee when you can. However, the fact that you can flee is undisputably linked to FL game mechanics. In real space combat situation, you most probably wouldn't be able to flee. Thus talking is usually the only way.
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