Developers. Please!

[MarvinCZ]

Alright, and what did I say?
Did I said they should be stronger then faction and house ones? No.
Did I said they should be equal to Codes/shield busters/Nomad cannons combination? No.

You did not, people before you did. You aren't the only one in this thread. People might reply to others as well.

So, what's the problem? Marvin, RP is valid argument if it's against idea, but if it's otherwise then it's not?

When you're accusing me of saying something, quote it, because I don't remember saying anything remotely like it.

I said that RL doesn't matter. That little letter is quite important there, please notice it.
Then I also said that it's less about RP and more about balance, but even then in my opinion RP agrees with our position. Let's not argue about the RP though, because (as I repeat) that's only secondary. It's also a matter of opinions where we just won't agree, I'm afraid.

Everyone are talking how in RP civilians shouldn't even have weapons, but mostly they have. well then in RP Codes should be very rare and expensive, and not avaliable to everyone, but mostly they are.
And yes Zeltak, if you want decent guns you need to chose some faction, this is something with what I don't agree, and I think it shouldn't be like that.
Anyway, at least try with 4.00 refire rate, and make them weaker then faction ones, and I don't see where the problem would be then.

I agree we should try, I already said I am not against the idea. *sigh*

[McNeo]

Really, even if you implement 2.0 Civilian Gun McNeo, if it has 750 ms speed, I don't care if it only does 850 damage or something bad like that, I will take it over anything. You never give a 2.0 refire rate gun over 700 ms speed.

Not really, when the Prometheus does 860@3.03 ...

I don't think such a gun would be as game breaking as you think, but I don't really care/mind that much. And remember, 750ms at 2.00 prevents them being used with a codename combination, which is what -would- break the game.

[Tenacity]

They just need to make flashpoints 4.00 refire and balance them appropriately. Seriously, there's only one 8.33 weapon worth using in this mod (salamancas), the rest end up being crap in battle. For pvp, nothing beats high damage per shot, you cant keep sustained fire on someone in a dogfight.

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[Zeltak]

They just need to make flashpoints 4.00 refire and balance them appropriately. Seriously, there's only one 8.33 weapon worth using in this mod (salamancas), the rest end up being crap in battle. For pvp, nothing beats high damage per shot, you cant keep sustained fire on someone in a dogfight.

Yeah that is actually an optimal idea. Just fixing the ol' Flashpoint. But are you sure the Salamancas are 8.33?
I thought they were 4.00.

And McNeo, perhaps you are right, I just think a 750 ms 2.00 Gun would be a killer.

[Tommeh]

ok, ok I am not in mood to argue about this.

Marvin, several people mentioned (I thought you were among them, but seems I was wrong) here that in RP civilians shouldn't have guns, or at least not good ones, and that codes cover the lack of good civ weapons.

My counter RP reason was that Codes should be very rare and expensive and hardly avaliable to any civilian.

I believed that you first said that civilians in RP shouldn't have good guns and that codes cover the lack of good civ guns, but when I wrote in RP argument about codes not being able to cover the lack of civ guns, you didn't want to see it then.
You quoted my post and wrote below it so I assumed your post was directed to me.

Your both posts (Zeltak's and Marvin ones) sounded to me like you don't like this idea and that you are against it, seems I got the wrong feelling then, my bad.

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[MarvinCZ]

People stated that if there are to be guns in those refire rates, there will have to be weaker. I don't call that whining or complaining. That's just statement of a fact, one that needs to be stated beforehand. There were also some stats thrown in, and those were discussed. Stating the parameters that would need to be followed is not killing the idea.

[... kur nubėgo?]

I think Tenacity wanted to mention Samaels

Well I found flashpoints quite decent. Of course a bit diffrent from 4 refire or the rest sirius has to offer, but sirius wide zoi should come with a price.

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Omega Pirates Guild

History of OPG | Antonio "Vilkas" Devivar

[mjolnir]

Sina is basically saying what I'd say, so I feel unneeded here... :$

I'll just highlight what I find importants

Really, even if you implement 2.0 Civilian Gun McNeo, if it has 750 ms speed, I don't care if it only does 850 damage or something bad like that, I will take it over anything. You never give a 2.0 refire rate gun over 700 ms speed.

Speed

and this:

The reason I ask you that they should be weaker in every single aspect is because that will be the price of unlimited Zone of Influence. You can't have it both ways.

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I do find it rather hard to believe that there are so many completely neutral Freelancers/Mercs/Vigilantes around that want those guns because the flashpoints/pgs/codes that they use really don't suit them. Seems a bit more like people who don't like own faction guns want an alternative.

The eagle example brought up illustrates the point fairly well.
Vanilla pvp was just eagles.
before 4.84 only thing limiting the eagle was the explosive vulnerability

in 4.85 it got nerfed a bit to similar level as most vhf... and still you have whole groups of OCs using them over Sabre.

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Igiss says: Martin, you give them a finger, they bite off your arm.

[MarvinCZ]

@sindroms: The speeds were from McNeo, Sina's and Mjolnir's response was to him and not against the general idea or the original post;)

So, I'd very much like these guns to be created, with the stuff mentioned in mind. We shall see.

[Tovig]

What about some 4.00 and 2.00 civi guns ? With same stats as the Flashpoint ? Both class 9. Could be nice and add variety.

EDIT : Some examples.

L0-7 "Breakpoint" Civilian Heavy Tachyon Gun

Owner: Civilian
Weapon Class: 9
Energy Type: Tachyon
Hull Damage: 450
Shield Damage: 225
Range: 650 m
Projectile Speed: 650 m/s
Refire Rate: 4.00
Energy Usage: 115
Price: $130,700

LU-7Z "Grindpoint" Civilian Heavy Plasma Canon

Owner: Civilian
Weapon Class: 9
Energy Type: Plasma
Hull Damage: 900
Shield Damage: 450
Range: 600 m
Projectile Speed: 600 m/s
Refire Rate: 2.00
Energy Usage: 220
Price: $130,700