Discovery 4.87 Tech Compatibility Chart Draft

[Sabru]

To raise a point Summer mentioned,

what is the CR - TAZ cap nerf going to be?

75% or 90%?

* Sabru hopes it is 90% both ways

* Sabru eyes off a thanatos

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[Govedo13]

I must give props up to aerelm about the house civilian guns at 75% for Freelancers.
Those guns are really overpowered DPEwise so I guess in order to keep their usage flexible given their proposed stats this is the only way to make it. I hate their balance idea and the new civilian guns but I must admit even if the idea is terrible he tries to balance it- not possible since the roots of the idea are bad.

I personally find new civilian weapons application redundant and not really useful because in-fact they buff the corporate snubs only.
House militaries and factions with 2 guns on the other hand get smacked by nefing one of their two weapons to the 4.85 civlilan gun levels. As bonus they get 90% of the already better new civilian weapons- quite weird thing. Longer explanation inclusive numbers here:
http://discoverygc.com/forums/showthread...pid1360865
Seems they decided to drop the generics of the new sweet guns list but keep it for the corps making the guns redundant since the corps already have 90% on house military guns.

I personally find a way better to not to nerf the double gun factions. Instead you can nerf civilian guns on 4.85 level and give it to 100% to everyone.
Make the new guns generic civilian not house civilian as well- this enables variety of loadouts for everyone, you can write in the infocard that lets say bret civilian gun have bret origins/design etc but does not make it 10% for gallics. Civilian stuff should be cheap (understand worse then faction stuff) and generic (should work with all kind of ships and gear).
As result everyone would be able to have solid second choice/mixed loadout- a bit worse gun with all refire and speed options as civilian, factions, freelancers,indies etc. Full civilian line with second grade quality is something that the players want since a lot of time.
Having civilian stuff on military/pirate level is unrealistic and brings only negatives- so many that I need to write 40-50 more lines to explain them.

90% on house military guns for corps is better solution instead of making corporate ships better choice for certain PvP styles then military/pirate ships- it does not fit the lore in my opinion.
May be the new proposed system would allow stuff to be done better but I still think that even with the new system the guns stats wont change- the second gun of the 2 gun factions would remain to suck and the new house civilian would continue to be really on military level if not better then some.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Cryer Pharmaceuticals!]

ouch.

Exactly - Ouch. Gonna go over your cells again this afternoon. Something must've gone wrong when c/ping stuff around. Thanks for pointing it out.

aha, much relief and appreciation here, looks much less distressing now. thanks for taking a look at it.

I note gmg is 75%, down from 90% at current. is this a specific bit of balancing (eg gmg stuff is too good or gmg stuff plus whatever is op) or a general 'you have enough' thing?

govedo: im sure it seems useless to you, but some of us have been flying flashpoint eagles for years and it's quite nice to finally have some choices for native tech that aren't massively underpowered 8.33s. also no idea why you think the ships of the richest groups in Sirius should be less well equipped than random pirates.

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[SummerMcLovin]

ae, updated my post for you to answer in your time.

I must give props up to aerelm about the house civilian guns at 75% for Freelancers.

Actually this was bumped to 90%.

or a general 'you have enough' thing?

This seems to be it, giving you 90% LN tech. Perhaps could swap given Cryer are more trans-Sirius these days (although you can pull the "our house" card when you want LN tech I see )

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Kingdom of Bretonia
Colonial Republic
Independent Miners Guild
Ex-Admin

[Govedo13]

govedo: im sure it seems useless to you, but some of us have been flying flashpoint eagles for years and it's quite nice to finally have some choices for native tech that aren't massively underpowered 8.33s. also no idea why you think the ships of the richest groups in Sirius should be less well equipped than random pirates.

Here we go with the whine fest. Read again my post- I propose full line of civilian guns of all refire rates and speed to be open for everyone on 100%. So you can fly whatever you want. You want military heavy gear np- you face the nerf. Caling 8.33 massively underpowered shows that you have little to no idea about guns so no point to discuss them at all.
Why pirat stuff have military level efficiency and stuff- balance. Neither the military nor the pirates have 5k traders right?
Good pilots are a way more bothered with refire rates/gun speeds then the actual damage of the gun - this would allow everyone to fly whatever he wants at certain price so no group would ever have the right to whine about guns variety etc.

Actually this was bumped to 90%.

OMG this is really bad thing. This then- pretty sad.
I does not understand why we should have situation where some parties would whine and be unhappy since there is option to make everyone satisfied at least with civilian guns.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Cryer Pharmaceuticals!]

or a general 'you have enough' thing?

This seems to be it, giving you 90% LN tech. Perhaps could swap given Cryer are more trans-Sirius these days (although you can pull the "our house" card when you want LN tech I see )

so long as rheinland occasionally blows us up for being libertines, it's only fair the motherland gives us a gun or two no? cryer by grace of blood, trans-Sirius at will and libertonian if pushed, to paraphrase and mangle the border reivers.
but yeah, I was asking in the interest of horse-trading: i have a suspicion the cryer family would be happier bunnies if the gmg cells could eat the zoner cells, as it were.

govedo: you're the one whining pal, I'm happy with this stuff. also you disagreed with corps being better than pirates because of lore, now you say it's because of balance. cool.
i didn't call 8.33s underpowered either. I advise practicing your reading right after practicing your manners, you pointlessly rude man

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[aerelm]

Mollys get the RPC now for no real reason, 90% Vidar would be enough?

InRP the Hel is an outdated Cruiser Hessians use as a cashcow on black market. They sell it to anyone and their dog who can afford it just for a quick buck unless the one trying to buy it belongs to one of the hostile factions. So yes, anyone who gets a cell to Hessians or has access to Rheinland black market can get one.

BAF and Colonial tech is fine, given it is early days we don't need caps. However, I'd have expected BAF and Council, along with Council and Colonial to get some cap-sharing, perhaps those caps at 75%, different from the 90% guns and small ships (when used with 'native' guns).

I don't know about Colonials, but both BAF and Council need every single cap they can get their hands on to save their own ass from the Gallic Valor spam.

That aside, SRP is always a valid option in case of red cells.

Planetform has been bumped up to 90% on IMG stuff, and obviously with no (long-lasting) player groups to interact I guess this is balance instead of RP..?

That's one of the cells that is still under discussion. May or may not be changed.

I don't know if you being annoyed at this post has suddenly set the CR-Council cell to 75%... 90% again please?

That's temporary until the new plugin is ready.

Kishiro and Samura would maybe be better with 90% on Rheinland civ ships since it is 90% the other way around?

The general principle applied to the current corp cells is they get 100% to their own house civi, and either a 90% to another house or 75%s to two other houses. It's still being discussed, may be changed to a more "relaxed" nerf combo.

However,
[6:49:07 PM] aerelm: as for house corps, they are the ones building and producing the house civi gear
[6:49:22 PM] aerelm: I personally dont see why would they even want another house's civi tech
[6:49:35 PM] aerelm: it's like a tailor buying his clothes from someone else while he's the best in town

KNF-RM slot dropped by official request, although the RP behind some of those in use and even the official RP of building them makes it rather strange.

It shouldn't have been added in the first place. That particular tech share is awfully wrong when you look at it from a balance perspective. Both Rheinland and Kusari gear are balanced for their own house and for shooting their intended opponents. swap their places and you'll get a good dose of headache.

Most Rheinland IDs lose their Bret Civ cell, and Bowex/BMM lose it the other way (exchange with Daumann for them). ALG I'd expect at 90% from Gateway alliance of decades.

That's currently being discussed. We'll see how it goes.

Hessians don't get Molly Caps, not reflecting the Molly 90% RH Cap cell.

Hessians already have enough cells, and people call me biased.

Unioners don't have the Corsair Allies cell, perhaps at 90% or exclude the Raba somehow?

They won't be getting that cell for now.

The Coalition, perhaps by extension the SCRA one too, have nothing other than their own tech, not even Sirius Civilian - strange.

It was based on their own request.

Junkers now have 90% on Bretonia compared to the other houses at 75% seems kind of random as well. Why were they chosen above the others?

Despite their guard system being in Liberty, Junkers have their highest presence in Bretonia based on various rumors and infocards, so in case of balance Junkers have always been considered a Bretonian faction.

Zoner have 75% on small House stuff, which I'd have thought a little weird given they'd left the houses but ok. No Order caps, which is reasonable enough.

That was based on a request I got from a certain player, which sounded reasonable enough. Those cells were mainly added to allow people portray their character's origin and background, and hence why the heavy transports were not included.

[Govedo13]

im sure it seems useless to you, but some of us have been flying flashpoint eagles for years and it's quite nice to finally have some choices for native tech that aren't massively underpowered 8.33s.

i didn't call 8.33s underpowered either.

Nope you are right, the tech chart is perfect because you are on the side that get buffed, screw the logic. Now it is time for me to eject.
I feel that this community degradate mentally really fast and there is no place for reason around, like most of it , you are unable to have proper discussion and bring proper arguments that supports your opinion. This make the discussion useless and creates tons of +1 posts that contribute with nothing to the tech chart and its good and bad sides.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[aerelm]

Make the new guns generic civilian not house civilian as well- this enables variety of loadouts for everyone, you can write in the infocard that lets say bret civilian gun have bret origins/design etc but does not make it 10% for gallics.

That's an interesting point. It's too early for that though, maybe it can be reconsidered once the guns have been in the market for some time and civilian manufacturers manage to either reverse engineer it or buy the blueprints or something. Can be done after a few updates, but for now let them have the "fresh" flavor InRp by being somewhat restricted based on their house of origin.

I note gmg is 75%, down from 90% at current. is this a specific bit of balancing (eg gmg stuff is too good or gmg stuff plus whatever is op) or a general 'you have enough' thing?

Actually, turned out the cells currently listed in the chart were the ones in the file, and that whole mess was just a c/p fail, so Cryer currently has not undergone any sort of rework. Certain factions need extensive consideration regarding their tech though. Factions like yours, and a few others, were indeed at one point considered a house corp, but they currently hold no strong ties to that house. Those are the "problematic" ones as the regular corp formulas cant be applied to them when it comes to tech cells. I'd even go as far as putting IC in this very same category, despite still having their headquarters in Liberty space.

Your faction, for instance, was funded in Liberty by a Rheinland scientist, but currently has bases in Bretonia and Sigmas and no real influence within the two houses it originated from. That causes a problem when as a Liberty faction it's expected to give you LN cells, and yet your only base in house space is not in Liberty space, which would instead call for a cell in BAF category. That combined with the region your other base is in (Sigmas), the formula would suggest you get 90% GMG cell, which in return would mean a 75% BHG cell.

Factions like this have to be discussed and considered on a case by case basis. Now I admit I'm not much of an expert in terms of Cryer diplo, so if you want feel free to add me on Skype so we can discuss the actual ties Cryer currently has, and base your nerf cells on that info.

[belarusich]

I don't know about Colonials, but both BAF and Council need every single cap they can get their hands on to save their own ass from the Gallic Valor spam.

That aside, SRP is always a valid option in case of red cells.

Oh, you mean inRP it seems... then nvm

KNF-RM slot dropped by official request, although the RP behind some of those in use and even the official RP of building them makes it rather strange.

Try to fight Hatchet in LABC...

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more than 1 kill per minute in shooter is cheating now :\

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