All players and characters are unique; however, many players find that being a unique character is not enough, and must therefore have mismatched ships and guns and IDs (mostly terrorist ones too, I might add)to reflect their uniqueness. A name and personality are not enough, so equipment must be mixed.
Coincidentally, these mismatched ships and guns are purely sought for PvP advantage. Admittedly, one or two other applications were submitted from time to time, but they were exceptions to a general trend that was seeking to min/max technology.
The issue arises because the server plays host to a modification of Freelancer, a single player game in which no one stopped you from acquiring an Eagle with Tizonas and Nomad blasters. In Discovery, a mod developed with far more guns and ships, the mismatching of certain guns and ships was not envisaged by balancing for each mod version. In other words, SRPs are not envisaged from the outset of the mod's creative process as being part of Discovery Freelancer. They existed here because they were allowed to exist. Part of it was done by factions sharing guns (they still do this); the other part was by the SRP system, whereby you wrote a story to get a mismatched ship/ID/Gun.
The fact that we host Discovery Freelancer answers the next question...
Do tell, why is it that the tech chart is so damned strict?
It is as strict as official factions (who cross over with development, but not as much as they should) make it. Read the rules on technology use carefully, not just the chart. There are some surprising combinations available to many people.
Why exactly can't a ship be granted to a red cell? Even sold? Tell me, why can't, for example, a Junker own a Valkyrie, even though there are clearly more than enough Valkyrie wrecks to salvage and take blueprints from in Sigma-13? Is it some sort of shot at the fact that people are so stupid they can't steal blueprints from something that's obviously been tossed aside?
Role-play can justify anything. Why can't Outcasts use Tizonas? They shoot down enough Corsairs? Why can't Junkers build .....(insert ship name)..... from stolen blueprints?
But that isn't roleplaying - that is writing fiction. In roleplaying of the traditional sort, you start with the stats and build your character and story around that, and you can still be unique.
I suppose what players really want is a kind of multi-class system (like, say, a fighter/magic-user). The thing is, there is no real disadvantage that can be implemented in game to reflect the disadvantages experienced in roleplaying games for characters of this kind.
Was the SRP too loose? Cause if so, do give examples. I can't remember any SRP character acting stupid or somewhere AWAY from his story, ever. Nor can I recall any SRP characters pulling schemes just to get the best weapon loadouts on their ships. Do please explain this to me. And the rest of the community, while you're at it.
The main issue with the previous system of SRP was that as time progressed it became unsustainable. In time, you would conceivably have so many SRPs that no one could be sure if any player they met was breaking rules or had a SRP'd character. No matter how transparent or fair a system you devised, you would in time create a bank of characters that would populate the server in its entirety with SRPs.
Quote:This is in no way a shot at the admins' authority, only a plea for explanation. I've searched for the whole day for a thread which gives an explanation for SRP closure (a CONCRETE one, mind you, not just "we did it because of cheese and military music"), and I found zilch. Now, either I'm too daft to find one, in which case I apologize for wasting forum space and plea for a link to the thread, or there just isn't a valid explanation, in which case, do provide one.
I recall several discussions in which the points above were outlined.
Quote:I'm not sure what to make of Athenian defending the Phantoms tooth and nail when I inquired about re-making them (nor does this thread have anything to do with it, since it doesn't qualify as SRP), but I get the overall feeling that the Admins are too control-freakish.
If it doesn't qualify as a SRP why raise it here other than to make a snide insult about my psychological problems?
Well, I'll reply. You tried to shotgun the creation of an instant terrorist faction that was disbanded. You posted a placeholder for a faction proposal to stop anyone else getting a chance. I get the overall feeling that you harbour grudges beyond the point of being healthy and regard yourself as being somehow more special than others.
I possibly shouldn't have risen to the bait there. Normally, I can control myself.
There are no more special individual permissions being done, despite what people claim. Factions have been asked to resubmit proposals to allow for unusual combinations not in the previous faction description, so yes, there are still quasi-SRPs available to players through faction membership and judicious and creative use of faction agreements where the faction represents the npc faction. (We did also switch an ID for a player for a previously submitted SRP in order to clarify a rules issue. )
The idea of an independent committee implies that there is some kind of wheeling and dealing that goes on to favour some elite collective. I've seen this implication in many places but I have yet to see a concrete example of how the system was shown to favour anyone in particular. It's been mentioned many times, but no one seems prepared to say exactly where this occurred.
I would say that there are simple 2 options-
1 To open the SRPs in some form. In such case I think that the Joker idea with quorum of forum members will do the job, I also would like to see all SRPed ships added in activity tracker and deleted if they dont make 10-12 hours per month. If you so much want to be special you should prove yourself worthy in-game. I know a lot of people who can write fancy stories and they even dont play freelancer.....
2 To delete all SRPs including the approved ones.
2 simple solutions in order to make the people happy.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:delete all SRPs including the approved ones.
That's something I have to agree with. If the SRP business is closed indefinitely, it should be for everyone, not just those who didn't get the chance to submit one.
Why should the LN be forever unable to get an Osiris, while the SCRA will forever have two of them? Why should the HF be the only revolutionary faction in Liberty that can fly navy capital ships? Bear in mind that I do not condone the SCRA nor the HF for this. These are just examples.
One might say: 'But it's our roleplay, we've had that ship for years, you can't change it now.' As much as I appreciate all the effort put in this, it shouldn't be accepted as an excuse. If the rules change, everyone has to adapt, not just the late guys.
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Mephistoles
' Wrote:If the rules change, everyone has to adapt, not just the late guys.
I was going to keep my mouth shut as I don't feel I've been a part of this community for long enough to weigh in on the subject, and I still don't think I have. But this right here so what I think is the perfect solution to this problem. If SRP is not going to be opened again then all of the approved stuff needs to be revoked.
I've only been a part of this community since mid march like I said haven't been here long. but I've seen a lot of people with really good RP and really good stories who missed the SRP window and never got a chance to fully flesh out their story like they wanted. and I've seen a lotta people with really shotty stories that don't make much sense but they got it all set up with SRP was still opened so they have all of their stuff set up even though it hardly makes sense.
Discordianism: the Schroedinger's Cat of religions.
As this thread seems to be about general SRP discussion, something that's been niggling at me: I got an AI ID granted via SRP back when that was the only way to get them, but they recently became open use, as you all know. As a result they got abused by a multitude of people who couldn't tell the difference between roleplay and thinly veiled excuses to shoot anything that moved and the ID got nerfbatted fifty feet underground.
I'm still roleplaying on with Harvester-40, but having a character of mine that was previously approved as being appropriate or trustworthy to use the ID given the freedom it entailed now reduced to the exact same level as every other imbecile who decided to fly a starflea out to Gammu, rename it "[AI]-KILLBOT", buy all the now open-use equipment and shoot everything in sight.
Is there any way around this limitation or am I just going to have to deal with it? I'm not sure if there are any other AI ID SRPers around, at least not any who SRPed for -just- the ID and not a specific AI ID and ship combination that would still be relatively valid because of the red celled combination, so I guess it's down to me to speak up about it.
I'd like to say that the only SRP shipas I know of that is in existance still is the Order's LABC, the ThunderBay, and the Maelstrom, Eva's lovely Scylla. Correct me if I am wrong, since idk if you still got Tundra Zapp, or if it was inactive deleted.
I should know about Tbay; mb52 handed me the keys to keep her alive while he is off with the military.
' Wrote:I'd like to say that the only SRP shipas I know of that is in existance still is the Order's LABC, the ThunderBay, and the Maelstrom, Eva's lovely Scylla. Correct me if I am wrong, since idk if you still got Tundra Zapp, or if it was inactive deleted.
I should know about Tbay; mb52 handed me the keys to keep her alive while he is off with the military.
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Mephistoles
All players and characters are unique; however, many players find that being a unique character is not enough, and must therefore have mismatched ships and guns and IDs (mostly terrorist ones too, I might add)to reflect their uniqueness. A name and personality are not enough, so equipment must be mixed.
Coincidentally, these mismatched ships and guns are purely sought for PvP advantage. Admittedly, one or two other applications were submitted from time to time, but they were exceptions to a general trend that was seeking to min/max technology.
The issue arises because the server plays host to a modification of Freelancer, a single player game in which no one stopped you from acquiring an Eagle with Tizonas and Nomad blasters. In Discovery, a mod developed with far more guns and ships, the mismatching of certain guns and ships was not envisaged by balancing for each mod version. In other words, SRPs are not envisaged from the outset of the mod's creative process as being part of Discovery Freelancer. They existed here because they were allowed to exist. Part of it was done by factions sharing guns (they still do this); the other part was by the SRP system, whereby you wrote a story to get a mismatched ship/ID/Gun.
The fact that we host Discovery Freelancer answers the next question...
[...]
It is as strict as official factions (who cross over with development, but not as much as they should) make it. Read the rules on technology use carefully, not just the chart. There are some surprising combinations available to many people.
[...]
Role-play can justify anything. Why can't Outcasts use Tizonas? They shoot down enough Corsairs? Why can't Junkers build .....(insert ship name)..... from stolen blueprints?
But that isn't roleplaying - that is writing fiction. In roleplaying of the traditional sort, you start with the stats and build your character and story around that, and you can still be unique.
I suppose what players really want is a kind of multi-class system (like, say, a fighter/magic-user). The thing is, there is no real disadvantage that can be implemented in game to reflect the disadvantages experienced in roleplaying games for characters of this kind.
[...]
The main issue with the previous system of SRP was that as time progressed it became unsustainable. In time, you would conceivably have so many SRPs that no one could be sure if any player they met was breaking rules or had a SRP'd character. No matter how transparent or fair a system you devised, you would in time create a bank of characters that would populate the server in its entirety with SRPs.
I recall several discussions in which the points above were outlined.
If it doesn't qualify as a SRP why raise it here other than to make a snide insult about my psychological problems?
Well, I'll reply. You tried to shotgun the creation of an instant terrorist faction that was disbanded. You posted a placeholder for a faction proposal to stop anyone else getting a chance. I get the overall feeling that you harbour grudges beyond the point of being healthy and regard yourself as being somehow more special than others.
I possibly shouldn't have risen to the bait there. Normally, I can control myself.
There are no more special individual permissions being done, despite what people claim. Factions have been asked to resubmit proposals to allow for unusual combinations not in the previous faction description, so yes, there are still quasi-SRPs available to players through faction membership and judicious and creative use of faction agreements where the faction represents the npc faction. (We did also switch an ID for a player for a previously submitted SRP in order to clarify a rules issue. )
The idea of an independent committee implies that there is some kind of wheeling and dealing that goes on to favour some elite collective. I've seen this implication in many places but I have yet to see a concrete example of how the system was shown to favour anyone in particular. It's been mentioned many times, but no one seems prepared to say exactly where this occurred.
[font=Agency FB]Oh God Athenian, you got things quite the wrong way. I in no way intended to insult you. I don't make snide remarks, about anything, and the control-freakish thing was not aimed at you. I didn't try to shotgun anything, I haven't even made ANY attempt to re-make the phantoms, I only opened a discussion on the idea I had to see the replies of the community. Someone named "Phantom Mithras" made that shameless placeholder post for the new Phantoms. Also, I did NOT want a Terrorist faction, I clearly stated I'd even have the ID FORBID shooting unless in self-defense! I'm sorry if I made you think otherwise.
Now, the SRP. If it IS indeed unsustainable, then the only cure would be to all-white the technology chart. Look, I get that too much special is bad, but it just feels stupid to want to leave a faction with your character that you've been breeding for ages and need to swap your ship cause you're no longer in the faction. Such as say a BHG Core member going Freelancer or maybe even Researcher with his capship... he has to sell the cap and immediately buy something the Researcher ID permits. Why would he want to do that if he had a lengthy RP describing how he kitted out his cap specifically for research? If he went to research Nomad stuff and/or do space exploration, would he really want to give up a well armed capship for a transport of some sort?
It's small things I'm aiming at here. I don't give half a rat's ass for PVP potential. I don't like pewpew cause I'm mediocre to bad at it. I like to have a ship I can stand to look at for more than five minutes, a vessel that looks good, but I couldn't have with a different ID. Personally, I'd ban everyone who got a completely stupid combination for whatever the damn reason, you can NOT RP your way into having a Titan with Krakens. You just cannot. I sincerely doubt the Corsairs would allow Outcast guns defiling their superior ships, or the Outcasts have a Titan among themselves. Now, if the person in question was a mercenary who tricked the Outcasts for the Krakens and the Corsairs for the Titan, then to him I say kudos and I pity him for the two-sided 20 mill bounty on his head.
Generally, everyone in this thread agrees on one of two things:
1. Completely remove ALL SRP, including the existing one, and destroy a very large part of this community's RP legacy.
2. Come up with another system, one that does not involve Admins getting more work on their hands. The best idea so far is a council of unbiased players that would read the stories, argument them, and decide on the SRP fate. The ultimate action would be for an Admin to check 12 different one-sentence opinions and say yes or no. In that case, the SRP submitter has to wait another three months before trying again.
The system would not endorse grudgery or bad blood in my opinion. Since, if you got turned down, you'd be mad, but simmer down in an hour or so and figure out that if you got denied, you had another three months to figure out a better story, better reasons, better execution. All in all, it would make people strive to be better RP-ers. If it takes up to 9 months for some of them to get approved, so be it!
As I said, and will ALWAYS say, a person who cannot wait to get something REALLY special doesn't deserve it. If someone goes raging about how they have to wait for another three months, he should be denied the SRP altogether. And do please limit it to one SRP per character. This way, you will have a small avalanche of SRP's at the beginning, but it will die down, like every new "fad" that hits the server.
Sucks to be a weight on the wrong side of the brilliance-insanity scale.
' Wrote:[font=Agency FB]Oh God Athenian, you got things quite the wrong way. I in no way intended to insult you. I don't make snide remarks, about anything, and the control-freakish thing was not aimed at you. I didn't try to shotgun anything, I haven't even made ANY attempt to re-make the phantoms, I only opened a discussion on the idea I had to see the replies of the community. Someone named "Phantom Mithras" made that shameless placeholder post for the new Phantoms. Also, I did NOT want a Terrorist faction, I clearly stated I'd even have the ID FORBID shooting unless in self-defense! I'm sorry if I made you think otherwise.
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