The Bretonian War-Front

[Unseelie]

How is Gallia:Bretonia 150:30 battleships, 2000:500 cruisers/gb a stalemate at the leeds border?

I can see it being a stalemate if, for instance, the system of Leeds was fortified the way dublin was. But as it is, there's really no sensical reason for the Gauls to be letting bretonia control that side of the Gate. Drop 30 battleships and 500 cruiser/gbs on it, take the gate. Take heavy losses, lose half the force, and you've still achieved a beachhead and maintained your ship advantage...

As is, there's no clear reason for why Gallia stopped there except for the fact that they have to be stopped somewhere for the new mod, and this is where our cross sectional veiw of reality placed us...Which means, in lore, this weird balance will exist for a year before anything changes, while the next mod is built.

My issue isn't that it exists for a while, but that that while is going to be a year because of happenstance of where devs decided to slice the timeline for a new mod...The lore document Igiss released had given the feeling that the battle, with the odds above, was going to be going on in Leeds, perhaps even in Dublin and London, and that Edinburgh is simply the forward end of a supply chain.

As someone sitting on the outside of what is a curtain of silence about lore past what we have released right now...I'm really quite concerned about the fact that this stalemate might continue for more than a week or two before the Gallics burst through.

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[Markam]

I don't know, maybe they stopped there because while they can afford to take heavy casualties, they have to fight Liberty next, and need to not be too wasteful, like Napoleon was.

But I actually agree, Derby can't really do much at the gate (too far to support), except sacrifice itself in exchange for a few Valors in glorious martyrdom, the Derby should be at planet Leeds, setting itself up for a rearguard action against the GRN fleet. Also, GRN would attack LD-14 from the Edinburgh gate, instead of planet Leeds, because the near-nothing visibility in the Leeds Smog cloud renders a direct push towards planet Leeds as futile. The GRN needs to take LD-14, Stoke, Tau-31 gate and then push on Leeds from Stoke, like the KNF attempted to.

Basically, anything that renders the giant GRN fleet immobile is suicide to enter, like the Sigma war, inferior forces with snubcraft can render large battleships useless. Newcastle for the same reason is hard to attack, as the tau31 hole is in the middle of an asteroid field and the system is occupied by Mollys, Outcasts, Mcduff/Ark Royal fleet and the Kusari Exiles from Yamaguchi, would be hell.

[FallenKnight]

Also, GRN would attack LD-14 from the Edinburgh gate, instead of planet Leeds, because the near-nothing visibility in the Leeds Smog cloud renders a direct push towards planet Leeds as futile. The GRN needs to take LD-14, Stoke, Tau-31 gate and then push on Leeds from Stoke, like the KNF attempted to.

You are missing the point that:
- York Great Fleet is sitting on the other side of the gate for Tau-31.
- Stokes (and the way to LD-14) is protected from Ronins and their Nagasaki Fleet.
- Derbi Great Fleet is waiting at Edinburgh's gate.
- Planet Leeds, turned in to fortress, is permamently suppling all of the 3 fleets in the system.

If we consider these facts, the enemy numbers are not enough just to enter the system and expect a victory. Instead they would sacrefice half of their forces just to penetrate through one of the mentioned fleets. The only thing we are equal with Gallia right now (in RP) are our snubs which are like 200 000.

Imagine that in RP Gallia sends all their assault forces from Edinburgh to a certain sector in Leeds. Which one will have the upper hand to fight on their ground and be supplied every minute? Gallic ships should travel weeks (in RP) from Edinburgh to Leeds via the jump gate to supply a minor part of their fleet and that will cost them a lot of casualties. Not to mention that Liberty can send a small fleet from their West borders without reducing their firepower on East. If that happens I dont see how Gallia can keep up for long.

An army without supplies is dead army.

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Discovery Bridges[Feedback] Baron Piett[Biography]

[Dab]

This has been ticketed, and if there are no dev objections, the BSs on gates will be located slightly further away so as not to impede player interaction.

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[jammi]

This has been ticketed, and if there are no dev objections, the BSs on gates will be located slightly further away so as not to impede player interaction.

Good stuff.

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[Zelot]

I for one dont think it should be changed. Do my objections count? I am sorta a dev.

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[Markam]

You are missing the point that:
- York Great Fleet is sitting on the other side of the gate for Tau-31.
- Stokes (and the way to LD-14) is protected from Ronins and their Nagasaki Fleet.
- Derbi Great Fleet is waiting at Edinburgh's gate.
- Planet Leeds, turned in to fortress, is permamently suppling all of the 3 fleets in the system.

If we consider these facts, the enemy numbers are not enough just to enter the system and expect a victory. Instead they would sacrefice half of their forces just to penetrate through one of the mentioned fleets. The only thing we are equal with Gallia right now (in RP) are our snubs which are like 200 000.

Imagine that in RP Gallia sends all their assault forces from Edinburgh to a certain sector in Leeds. Which one will have the upper hand to fight on their ground and be supplied every minute? Gallic ships should travel weeks (in RP) from Edinburgh to Leeds via the jump gate to supply a minor part of their fleet and that will cost them a lot of casualties. Not to mention that Liberty can send a small fleet from their West borders without reducing their firepower on East. If that happens I dont see how Gallia can keep up for long.

An army without supplies is dead army.

And you are missing the entire point of that little paragraph; I merely said that losing the Edinburgh gate won't be a total loss, and it makes more sense to base at Leeds and bloody the GRN in the smog field, rather than get steamed at the gate by superior GRN numbers.

None of the things you mentioned will save BAF from GRN, that is obvious from the storyline direction, best prepare yourself for this fact. GRN will bust through into Leeds from Edinburgh, head towards LD-14 while cutting off Planet Leeds, and sweeping Stoke and the Tau-31 gate area, after which they prepare to attack Leeds in an identical situation to the one faced in 4.85. Ronins, the York and the Derby will do nothing to stop GRN, at best they will attempt to fight their way back to Leeds and regroup with the Derby. Besides all this, I'll remind you that I did not make a statement as to what the GRN will do, merely what they need to do.

[Knjaz]

You are missing the point that:
- York Great Fleet is sitting on the other side of the gate for Tau-31.
- Stokes (and the way to LD-14) is protected from Ronins and their Nagasaki Fleet.
- Derbi Great Fleet is waiting at Edinburgh's gate.
- Planet Leeds, turned in to fortress, is permamently suppling all of the 3 fleets in the system.

If we consider these facts, the enemy numbers are not enough just to enter the system and expect a victory. Instead they would sacrefice half of their forces just to penetrate through one of the mentioned fleets. The only thing we are equal with Gallia right now (in RP) are our snubs which are like 200 000.

Imagine that in RP Gallia sends all their assault forces from Edinburgh to a certain sector in Leeds. Which one will have the upper hand to fight on their ground and be supplied every minute? Gallic ships should travel weeks (in RP) from Edinburgh to Leeds via the jump gate to supply a minor part of their fleet and that will cost them a lot of casualties. Not to mention that Liberty can send a small fleet from their West borders without reducing their firepower on East. If that happens I dont see how Gallia can keep up for long.

An army without supplies is dead army.

1) How did Kusarians break through? I heard something about EMP mines (well, I rofl'ed, but still it happened). And ,afaik, it had WAY less forces the
2) Planet Leeds is uncapable of recovering losses in heavy vessels.
3)If they penetrate mentioned defenses, that would mean one thing - Bretonia just lost 2 of it's great fleets.

And srsly, what Derbi/York great fleets consist of? And if they're positioned at JGs, what will 60 Valors + other stuff do to them? The only thing is to get those into system more or less at same time, but then Gallics can try to reprogram the JGs to make the exit point at another sector in system.

[jammi]

1) How did Kusarians break through? I heard something about EMP mines (well, I rofl'ed, but still it happened). And ,afaik, it had WAY less forces the
2) Planet Leeds is uncapable of recovering losses in heavy vessels.
3)If they penetrate mentioned defenses, that would mean one thing - Bretonia just lost 2 of it's great fleets.

And srsly, what Derbi/York great fleets consist of? And if they're positioned at JGs, what will 60 Valors + other stuff do to them? The only thing is to get those into system more or less at same time, but then Gallics can try to reprogram the JGs to make the exit point at another sector in system.

1) EMP suicide bombers, yeah.
2) Agreed. They should be coming from Southampton and/or Scarborough, so New London and Newcastle respectively.
3) The battleship you see ingame is the tip of the iceberg, so far as their support fleets go. It would be ridiculous to assume the GRN wouldn't just roll over them though. And jump gates don't work like that.

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[Unseelie]

The Armed Forces have barely 30 battleships remaining in their possession along with under 500 destroyers and gunboats, and some 70,000 fighters and bombers. Against them, Gallia has well over 150 battleships, nearly 2,000 smaller capital ships, and 125,000 strike craft in Tau systems and Edinburgh alone, with more reinforcements still coming through Orkney.

That's the current lore of the war front, which is to say, spread across all of bretonia, there's 30 battleships, 500 destoryers/gunboats, and 70k snubs. Total. That's what the BAF has in all of its great fleets combined.

If there's a Great Fleet for Macduff, Derby, Suffolk, Norfolk, York and ArkRoyal, that's 6 great fleets. Two of them are in Leeds.

there's also the Ronin, Consisting of

5 battleships, 10 Destroyers and 25 Gunboats and a handful of fighter and bomber wings

, arguably all of them deployed along the stokes defense line. (and presumably some more exiles existing elsewhere who've not climbed into Kogen's Ronin.)

Still, from that breakdown, arguing rather generously that half of the BAF is deployed to defend Leeds, that there are 19 battleships (15 BAF and 4 Ronin), 285 Destroyers/gb (250 BAF, 35 Ronin) and 40k snubs (35k Baf and 5k Ronin) in Leeds, facing the 150 battleships, 2000 capitals, and 125k snubs that Gallia has poised around Edinburgh and Leeds.

Arguing that Gual will only dedicate half of the forces in Edinburgh and Tau to the pitched battle for Leeds, that's 19:75 BS, 285:1000 Capitals, and 62k:40k snubs

Capital wise, that's nearly 4:1 odds in favor of the Guals, with the only evenish numbers on the snub side, and the Guals can easily double the odds in their favor by bringing more reinforcements in to hold tau (where they have almost no enemies and dedicating their whole force to crushing Leeds.

Leeds needs to fall. No other action makes a great deal of sense..and, preferably, it'll fall in stages done over this mod, rather than dropped on us in a chunk when next mod comes out...some six months from now, and a year down the lore timeline.

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