' Wrote:I was talking about ship quality, not player quantity.
That's also not represented in game.
' Wrote:IRP, they should be rather alarmed to see an Outcast cap ship in New York. It's like the columbian drug lords coming to the USA to kill their customers.
Oh, they will be. I have full confidence that Liberty characters will show it back to Alpha in no time as it has been so far.
' Wrote:THe problem is that they will try, and some already.
Tell people that it is noble to kick someone in the balls for something, and a crowd of the worst people around will start kicking people in that balls with that something as a welcome pretext.
That's what I see when people propose unnecessary restrictions.
' Wrote:Because it couldn't pirate. (yet)
The idea is to boost transport thruster speed to make cruisers not so useful for piracy.
' Wrote:Don't get ne wrong, I'm all for dropping the who rule, that's what I said in my first post. I just think that some adjustments are necessary, and those adjustments I proposed would also help fix a bunch of other RP and balance issues.
I understand that you are concerned but you are fixing a problem that does not exist yet and might not raise at all.
What makes you think that Outcasts will swarm house space all of sudden to an extend that can't be solved by in game tactics and diplomacy?
This is lolwut move from admin/dev team since you nerf pirates in favor of lawfuls.
I cannot see reason to do so since nothing changed in game-play. I cannot see why the transport shall keep exception the 4 hour rule if you want to nerf the pirates that bad.
Actually the whole thing could be fixed in 15 min dev work changing the shield type of transports and capital type of guns- make the transports to absorb 90% of the Cruiser guns and 95% of the battleship ones and remove the stupid protection rule for both sides.
And for the wall of text people- you are jokes- you cannot get to the point really- typing a lot without saying anything.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
But it should, so make the RP environment worth being called that.
Quote:Oh, they will be. I have full confidence that Liberty characters will show it back to Alpha in no time as it has been so far.
1: The rules don't allow that
2: the Outcasts players in New York don't care what happens in Alpha
Quote:That's what I see when people propose unnecessary restrictions.
No, it's not. That's what happens when you call to vigilantism like you suggested
Quote:The idea is to boost transport thruster speed to make cruisers not so useful for piracy.
That could be part of it. Lowering pirate cruiser firepower and speed should also be part of it, so that a rag-tag cruiser from a bunch of pirates doesn't represent a major problem for what should be a state of the art warmachine upheld and designed by one of hte strongest militaries in Sirius.
Quote:I understand that you are concerned but you are fixing a problem that does not exist yet and it might not raise at all.
The people who put rule 6.7 in pace seemed to think so, and still do. I'm all for dropping it, and only making the adjustments I mentioned if they prove to be necessary. In my opinion at the moment, they seem necessary.
Quote:What makes you think that Outcasts will swarm house space all of sudden to an extend that can't be solved by in game tactics and diplomacy?
Because that's what happened on servers who don't have those restricitons. On PvP servers, as well as on RP servers who didnt have those restrictions. Examples? Corsair invasions in Liberty on unrestricted RP servers (PTC), and pirating battleships that shoot everything that gets close on non RP servers.
Don't forget that the players of those PVP servers got used to the lack of Roleplay rules ans sense. A minor change in the set of rules will barely make the players of DiscoGC behave like them.
Besides, restricting caps to their core worlds only - as you suggested - would make more problems than it would solve. Just think about the current wars of Sirius, between Liberty and Rheinland, and the Tau Wars.
' Wrote:This is lolwut move from admin/dev team since you nerf pirates in favor of lawfuls.
I cannot see reason to do so since nothing changed in game-play. I cannot see why the transport shall keep exception the 4 hour rule if you want to nerf the pirates that bad.
Actually the whole thing could be fixed in 15 min dev work changing the shield type of transports and capital type of guns- make the transports to absorb 90% of the Cruiser guns and 95% of the battleship ones and remove the stupid protection rule for both sides.
And for the wall of text people- you are jokes- you cannot get to the point really- typing a lot without saying anything.
I understand your points Govedo. Maybe you can make them without calling people lolwuts and jokes. This was a very civil discussion up to that point.
' Wrote:I understand your points Govedo. Maybe you can make them without calling people lolwuts and jokes. This was a very civil discussion up to that point.
Well it if the rule is changed in that way it is pure form of trolling from admin/dev team vs pirate players- if you want to test be my guest I would take any cruiser and you take any transp. I bet I would kill you in 10 of 10- this rule change would kill unlawful transportation and could work only well if you remove the 4 hour protection rule for transports- but even so it would mean more reports and more wasted working hours for your team- it is stupid to make auto goals to yourselves. Even now in Bretonia and in Gallia pirating with transport in not possible with less then 150 people around- there are the OP bugged bret gb patrols patrolling 2/3 of the lines and the OP Gallic platforms, no need to make the rest of even less transport pirates to take GBs instead of transports. I also see no particular reason to change the situation favoring the lawful side and nerfing the unlawful side.
I cannot see why pure game mechanic problem( the huge DPS of Cruisers/Battlesihps vs Transport kind vessels) should be solved with a set of written rules that are broken in RP and OORP when there is really simple game mechanic solution that makes all sides happy and it is fair for everyone without bringing extra reports. Game mechanics problems could be solved only by game mechanics not by rules.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
' Wrote:But it should, so make the RP environment worth being called that.
That could be part of it. Lowering pirate cruiser firepower and speed should also be part of it, so that a rag-tag cruiser from a bunch of pirates doesn't represent a major problem for what should be a state of the art warmachine upheld and designed by one of hte strongest militaries in Sirius.
I could agree to a certain degree however the current philosophy is for all factions to have balanced gear.
The problem is that people gravitate to the best equipment and don't like to play with a handicap. That would leave factions with better technology with large player base with barely any opposition to fight.
4.85 Sabre in combination with Krakens and Trident (those used to be considered above average) actually caused the major influx of Outcast pirates in Liberty.
' Wrote:The people who put rule 6.7 in pace seemed to think so, and still do. I'm all for dropping it, and only making the adjustments I mentioned if they prove to be necessary. In my opinion at the moment, they seem necessary.
Times change, community evolves. This thread and incentive comes from a member of the admin team.
' Wrote:Because that's what happened on servers who don't have those restricitons. On PvP servers, as well as on RP servers who didnt have those restrictions. Examples? Corsair invasions in Liberty on unrestricted RP servers (PTC), and pirating battleships that shoot everything that gets close on non RP servers.
You can't compare servers with such a huge gap in activity. A 10 player group on those servers represent about half of the players online and can become a force that is unmatched.
Such an invasion on this server would meet with much higher resistance.
' Wrote:1: The rules don't allow that
2: the Outcasts players in New York don't care what happens in Alpha
No, it's not. That's what happens when you call to vigilantism like you suggested
The rules allow shooting of Outcasts even from their allies if they pull of an invasion on their turf.
What you call vigilantisms I call interacting, roleplaying and consequences of one's action. An Outcast battlegroup that shows up without invitation is a valid target for locals, lawful or not.
' Wrote:I cannot see why pure game mechanic problem( the huge DPS of Cruisers/Battlesihps vs Transport kind vessels) should be solved with a set of written rules that are broken in RP and OORP when there is really simple game mechanic solution that makes all sides happy and it is fair for everyone without bringing extra reports. Game mechanics problems could be solved only by game mechanics not by rules.
I think the current proposal is to drop the restriction entirely and buff transports speed a little. What's wrong with that?
' Wrote:I think the current proposal is to drop the restriction entirely and buff transports speed a little. What's wrong with that?
Gunboats is wrong with that, it would screw even the fragile balance that is around- kitting transp on 160-70 speed with 2s kills gbs like there is no tomorrow- check Geisha, then imagine 12 gunner at that speed.
If you give GBs the needed speed then you would need to buff snubs etc- the whole system would bug even more.
I would say to point out the problem:
Main Problem is the low/none survivability of the Transports vs Cruisers and Battleships mainly due to the huge amount of DPS that they could deliver- reduce the DPS- solve your problem with the said sub-problems.
Sub-Problem is that Lawful capitals cannot kill unlawful transports.
Sub-Problem is that unlawful capitals cannot kill lawful transports.
Shield/guns changes fix all the problems without screwing the fragile balance between ship classes.
Rules and Reports does not fix problems- they create unneeded load to admin team.
Game mechanics fix problems.
You people should PvP more on transports or take Zeb in Dev team to help you balancing them.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)
Del's proposal is to buff transport thrust to 160 - a mere 10 above that of the gunboat. I'm pretty sure no transport is going to out run you in a gunboat unless you're doing it wrong. Two transports working together? They might be able to and rightly so - they are a group and you are solo.
Cruisers and battleships have no CDs the last time I checked and their thrust speed is what 140 (taking Del's word) thus transports who can actually fly their bricks can manage to out run a lone cruiser or battleship. If the cap has the aid of a snub with a CD you're toast.
If you're going to be part of the discussion do try to read the discussion instead of just jumping in and thinking you know it all.