Admin Notice: Factions

[Prysin]

Govedo, you keep going in circles now... so, cut to the chase please.

also, please do note that "unique ships" wont be added, ships wont ever against be restricted to the faction alone. It wont happen again, because the amount of Q_Q and jealousy it creates isnt worth it

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DHC Discord

[West]

I agree on your view on "unique" ships. Just checked statistic... RHBattleship = 59, even if inrp they should have max 2-3.
Make them closed.. with SRP like possibility to get it. No need for 500mil, Just some good forum RP.. how you got all needed stuff, how you delivered/constructed. Make it in 2-4 weeks.. and get approval. In this way it would help to weed out all lolies who even don't speak english.

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[Prysin]

I agree on your view on "unique" ships. Just checked statistic... RHBattleship = 59, even if inrp they should have max 2-3.
Make them closed.. with SRP like possibility to get it. No need for 500mil, Just some good forum RP.. how you got all needed stuff, how you delivered/constructed. Make it in 2-4 weeks.. and get approval. In this way it would help to weed out all lolies who even don't speak english.

wont happen - ship restrictions based upon a "application" system wont be implemented, no matter how brilliant the idea is.

Ship restrictions based upon admin and/or faction leader approval wont be added no matter how brilliant it may be.

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DHC Discord

[Vrabcek]

I will repeat myself.
All what is needed is positive disrimination towards the official factions. That does not have to mean that the official factions would have new toys, but simply that they will have the authority over the independent players.

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[Blodo]

Sadly not everyone has a dreamteam HC.
The one's who have should consider themselves extremely lucky.

* Blodo feels lucky

Anyway, regarding the official faction lore input: there are a bunch of things missing here that weren't mention.

1. Friday offered official factions the ability to deliver clear input into the storyline. Negotiated input. I know for a fact that some official factions forfeited their right to supply this input (furthermore, despite being asked not to because the idea behind 4.87 storyline was "no faction left behind"), so that's on them and not on the dev team. As much as it annoys me to say this, we seem to be unable to work with everyone.

2. Some people here think the dev team should go ahead and put in every single thing the official factions decide to dream up. Well I am sorry but I disagree with that heavily. Some things are making it into the story, one of the best historic examples are the Nomad - OC connection which has been expanded from a single vanilla rumour into an entire storyline section. 4.87 itself will be absolutely filled with various player faction storylines as well. But then other things are not making it in because they are powergamey. Despite the glorifications of official factions in this thread, it has to be pointed out that they have proven time and again that they cannot be trusted to not take advantage of the dev team connections that are offered to them in order to powergame their own faction to varying degrees: some tried to get away with murder, others tried to use small steps... I won't point fingers, but we are all guilty of it at various times.

This is exactly why the dev team reviews all storyline proposals and rejects those that are nonsensical or designed as a booster to factions that don't need it. This position is currently represented by Friday who has no major connections to any official factions, is specifically trying to not make friends around the community and look at every submission with an incredibly critical eye so as not to get influenced by emotions too much, and as such can be trusted to remain unbiased more than any official faction leader can.

I know us faction leaders like to toot our own horns a lot, but seriously now: you all get mad when your faction loses stuff and happy when it gains stuff. You may have no malicious intent, but dev team announcements influence your emotions because deep down you do want your faction to succeed and become top dog, that is just our nature. Official factions (whilst suffering from the problems outlined in this thread) are too deregulated to have absolute power over anything, be that the storyline or docking rights or capship sales or weapons/technology or indies or (insert thing here). Myself being a faction leader for about 3 years running, I have seen enough crap happen around most of the aforementioned stuff to be firmly entrenched in my belief that official factions aren't capable of not abusing the trust that the community would put in them by giving them power to do something, and there have been many examples over the years that have proven that that I will not be stating explicitly here so as not to start a flame war.

But anyway: I know the logical point to make from my statement above is "give official factions absolute power, let admins remove faction leaders that abuse it". Sadly, the admins aren't infallible either, and I wouldn't trust them to be able to keep carrying out such a huge amount of work as keeping tabs on the internal/external politics of every single official faction out there would be. Faction numbers might be dwindling but they are by no means low still...

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Regarding the posts that showed up while I was writing this:

Seriously guys, you have to understand that "power redistribution" is a stupid idea that will not help anybody. Neither the indies, nor the official factions. Especially not the server. Currently a measure of a faction's "power" is the charisma of its leadership and its members, the faction's reputation so to say. This is something that the admins can't fix for you. Taking away caps from the indies will only serve to depopulate the server and suddenly you will be asking the admins "why is disco dying?", and then they will say: "because the faction leaders asked us to make the game unfun for the majority so they (the minority) can have their sandbox to play in". And then we will all delete our forum accounts and go wait for Star Citizen. Please come up with something that will not cause the server to depopulate in favour of the nihilistic few.

[AeternusDoleo]

This is exactly why the dev team reviews all storyline proposals and rejects those that are nonsensical or designed as a booster to factions that don't need it. This position is currently represented by Friday who has no major connections to any official factions, is specifically trying to not make friends around the community and look at every submission with an incredibly critical eye so as not to get influenced by emotions too much, and as such can be trusted to remain unbiased more than any official faction leader can.

This extends to some of the guard systems that get reintegrated by the way. I'll use Cassini as an example, but it applies to other systems as well. Most of the bases in Cassini refer to the system as being heavily fortified, so that not even the Liberty Navy (biggest military force in Sirius after the GRN) could breach it. Utter nonsense (and not the kind produced at Terre Haute) when you have to merge that with the general storyline. The Rogues survive on a mix of brutality, cunning and stealth, not sheer military power. What also irked me are the many direct references to player characters in infocards in that system (mainly to Sylpheed). Tooting ones horn definately applies there... especially since direct references to played characters are against infocard guidelines.

Having the bases 60K above/below plane doesn't really help either in making that system accessible to the average player. It just hides the best Rogue toys away for an (OORPly) select few who either know where to find that base, or can use modding tools to get the coordinates.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Durandal]

This extends to some of the guard systems that get reintegrated by the way. I'll use Cassini as an example, but it applies to other systems as well. Most of the bases in Cassini refer to the system as being heavily fortified, so that not even the Liberty Navy (biggest military force in Sirius after the GRN) could breach it. Utter nonsense (and not the kind produced at Terre Haute) when you have to merge that with the general storyline. The Rogues survive on a mix of brutality, cunning and stealth, not sheer military power.

There's a difference between something being unbreakable and something being too costly to break, which is how I always viewed guard systems such as Cassini.

What also irked me are the many direct references to player characters in infocards in that system (mainly to Sylpheed). Tooting ones horn definately applies there... especially since direct references to played characters are against infocard guidelines.

Nobody cares.

Having the bases 60K above/below plane doesn't really help either in making that system accessible to the average player. It just hides the best Rogue toys away for an (OORPly) select few who either know where to find that base, or can use modding tools to get the coordinates.

Yeah I guess that's sort of true. I'd go ahead and try to justify Leniex's exception during .85 but people would kick and scream and play the bias card.

[Govedo13]

There is a way to give more stuff to the official factions without harming the indies. Use the Freemium model. I cannot understand why few unique ships would harm the game play? Who said that those freemium ships should also not be distributed to proven faction indies as well?
Give something shiny to the official factions, something that would make them attractive.
I absolutely agree with Blodo about the faction leaders/Devs lore tensions, it is clear that each faction wants the best stuff, without clear regulations the said tensions would become worse. If there was clear line telling what faction leaders can demand and what they cannot there would be no problems.

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Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[West]

I absolutely agree with Blodo about the faction leaders/Devs lore tensions, it is clear that each faction wants the best stuff, without clear regulations the said tensions would become worse. If there was clear line telling what faction leaders can demand and what they cannot there would be no problems.

To do that.. factions first should know their relative strenght inrp in numbers, to understand what they can and can't.
It was quite funny for KNF to listen different admins/devs telling us different numbers of caps we have inrp... ranging from 1 to 15.
With numbers.. faction would have way to justify.. "why we want this base/etc" and devs will have way to "but you will loose half of your forces by conquering it".. or might loose something on another end of house etc.

Those numbers will also help factions to make more rp.. about positioning.. numbers.. etc.

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[Anaximander]

What about the NPC capspam, since we are on the micro-management level? Or codename guns, far too many of them in the game to really be rare, right?

It's a game. Deal with it.