Useless cloaking device thread

[Zapp]

Perhaps the problem, then, isn't people abusing the cloak. Perhaps what we're seeing is simply one piece of hardware being "too versatile." Jinx brings up a good point: people are using cloaks for ambush and escape, and I'll throw in a third use: recon. In response to complaints about it being used for escape, its "escape" functionality was essentially removed. Alright. How about this: there are three types of cloaks (beyond the three sizes). One for each use. So for escape, maybe the warm up period is shorter, but fuel consumption is higher. You only get 30 seconds to 1 minute, which is enough to get enough distance to have a running chance. It can't be dropped by damage. For recon, the warm up time is doubled and damage disables the cloak, but you get longer cloak duration. For ambush... I dunno. Seems like the same would work for ambushing.

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[Knjaz]

right now - cloaks are good at AMBUSHING - but not good at ESCAPING

I'd be glad to know how to use it for ambushing in fleet warfare while flying a battleships or cruiser, when any collision with literally anything will lead to cloak deactivation. Or when enemy can just spray&pray, inevitably hitting you.

P.S. Although, if it's damage-related, I guess making cloak not turning your shields off would fix this?

[Jinx]

obviously - planned combat starts a bit earlier than scanner range.

when the order attacked the Oder Rheinland cruiser in manhattan - you may be sure they were tipped off ( by a scout or something ) - so they cloaked outside of scanner range - and uncloaked at point blank

thats how you ambush

ppl may need to understand that a battle starts LONG before the first shot is fired. - and there are only few examples in history where an ambush was successfully stated while being in full sight of the enemy. - usually people figured out the enemies behaviour to exploit known patterns.

and with that in mind - you can make pretty nice ambushes ... and since you are the one dictating the setting of the ambush - you may probably not do it in a dense asteroid field with a huge battleship - cause that would be stupid.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Knjaz]

obviously - planned combat starts a bit earlier than scanner range.

when the order attacked the Oder Rheinland cruiser in manhattan - you may be sure they were tipped off ( by a scout or something ) - so they cloaked outside of scanner range - and uncloaked at point blank

thats how you ambush

ppl may need to understand that a battle starts LONG before the first shot is fired. - and there are only few examples in history where an ambush was successfully stated while being in full sight of the enemy. - usually people figured out the enemies behaviour to exploit known patterns.

and with that in mind - you can make pretty nice ambushes ... and since you are the one dictating the setting of the ambush - you may probably not do it in a dense asteroid field with a huge battleship - cause that would be stupid.

Obviously I'd order fleet to cloak outside of scanner range, you don't have to tell me such basics, capital-heavy fleet combat is almost the only/main thing I've been doing in FL for last months. And generally in last year, with several months long vacation.

But if those 4 turtles, while engaging a tight fleet formation of 4-5 LDs/LACs and snubs, would accidentally touch each other, it'd be all over. Please, remember, it takes batteships 20+ seconds to start charging. And when it comes down cruise drain, a medium fully charged battleship will have a good chance to kill heavy at point blank, due to ability to deal approx. 2.5 millions damage from their stored energy alone.

Same goes for the opposing team - on their place if I'd see that enemy CD'ers are moving in during one of, say, TX fleet fights, with no turtles in sight, on the place of their FC I'd instantly order caps and other ships to start spraying fire.

Now you also have 100% protection from cloaking ambushes if you move your light caps into asteroid fields. This is especially bad in Omega 41, Omicron Kappa and other such systems. And due to size difference, without cloak advantage light caps have absolute superiority in roids, over the heavy ones, while heavy caps do not have superiority over lights in the open - they have it only if they manage to get close, which is impossible without a cloak. (if enemy CD'ers have their hands grown from the right place)

I think if I'll put a little more than few mins of thought on how would I act to make cloaker's days worse, I'd be able to come up with some other suggestions as well, some of which may even sound crazy. Liiiike, creating cargo "minefields", spreading junk around and this closing specific direction from which enemy caps, especially large-sized ones, won't be able to come at you. But spray and pray, especially by fighters, comes first.

The system that got implemented clearly did not take fleet combat into account. The only possible solution left is simultaneous Cruise + cruise charge on EK, in hopes of not ramming/hitting/touching anything, and still trying to position yourself in a right way to get into at leas 1000m distance from enemy light cap and trying to arrive simultaneously, at once.

Don't you think DevTeam overdid it?

[Jinx]

do you really take damage from bumping into a dropped cargo unit unshielded? - never happened to me to be honest - but as far as i know you do not take damage from minable pebbles unshielded.

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Shipdesigns made for DiscoveryGC

[Knjaz]

do you really take damage from bumping into a dropped cargo unit unshielded? - never happened to me to be honest - but as far as i know you do not take damage from minable pebbles unshielded.

You don't take damage from mineable stuff, since it's not a "normal" object. At least it doesn't behave like one.

Yes, just logged in with my RMBS and tested it. Touching a cargo disrupts cloak.
But that's not my main concern, although several fighters can easily create such minefields.

"Spray and pray" what any well organized fleet will do to uncloak you (huge ships will suffer most), and also hostile NPCs, especially due to the low server population lately, will prevent you from cloaking. It's also rather impossible to use trade lanes with a cloak, now.

Allowing cloaked ships to have shields up, or at least some of their shields (if it's technically possible), won't allow them escape combat in any way - since if you're escaping combat, there's a good chance your shields are down, already. There's also a good chance that your shields and batteries will drop faster than you'll be able to cloak. (in order to cloak, you'll have to have your shields up uninterrupted, means constantly using bats. Even 1-2 bombers with EMP guns can make it in time on medium cloak)

[titanbot]

its a tough one to balance

not long ago we had a thread complaining about the impossibility of killing battleships that cloaked in time and slipped away - restock and returned.

a significant portion of the community was for some kind of countermeasure.

now - we are aware that it may have gone a bit further than "some kind of...."

but that is why everyone should keep an open mind and see how it turns out.

right now - cloaks are good at AMBUSHING - but not good at ESCAPING

the single player campaign does tell us that ships cloaked for both purposes - a short term fighter cloak to ambush - just long enough to slip into the sensor range and get close enough for a few surprise point blank shots.

and it also showed us the osiris escape certain doom under heavy fire with its cloak AND jumpdrives.


in the past it seemed that ppl were very much concerned not to be able to stop a cloaker - hence... we reacted.

Well then. Here's another (viable) solution.
Instead of rendering cloaks useless by means of turning them off in case of damage, here's what I propose.

"not long ago we had a thread complaining about the impossibility of killing battleships that cloaked in time and slipped away - restock and returned." -> Reduce the amount of time you can stay cloaked. That's why 3 fuel/second is okay, 1 fuel/second is not (for battleships). Current cloak balance is okay for fighters, bombers and cruisers, if you ask me.

This way, you won't destroy fighter cloaks as well, you can still ambush/retreat, and all the rest.

titan

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[captain_obvious]

(...) and associated idiots that fly with them as well as other glitch abusing players like Morbius who figured out how to fire whilst cloaked (...)

Have to say I laughed a lot on this. U mad alte? Btw I can't shoot while I'm cloaked, that's just a story what's spreading in your group -or at least in the group that you led for some time- based on a victim who was trying to escape and didn't watch my ship all the time.. so no, there is nothing like that kind of bug exists.

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[Savi]

light caps have absolute superiority in roids, over the heavy ones, while heavy caps do not have superiority over lights in the open

You mean battleships and I doubt an over sized light cruiser stands a chance against an under sized very heavy cruiser but I think it's absolutely fair because the heavy cruiser needs huge practice and dedication to aim at a red cross hair.

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[jammi]

Watch the language and the attitude. We're monitoring the thread to ensure everyone remains civil. Directly insulting people isn't civil.

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