The Dreaded "Do Sairs Need Guns" Argument, Hosted by Rodnas & Silver

[Silver]

Mind pointing out those decent points, Rodnas? I'm lost.

8|

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop

[Curios]

Well, second line will not help much. Since we're taking about the speed here so the second hull buster will have a missmatch with tizonas - it's uncool.
Buff of the current weps for 650 is okay already and let's see how this will work out. Also I like the idea of Corsair MR 8|

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[Rodnas]

No problem here Silver, the lore pov, weak as it is in my opinion supports corsair supremacy on how to dev things to kill other things with, which at least in vanilla meant snubs&their guns.

From an rp pov, there has been done quite some effort to play out tech research - so it is not a "iwant, but please for free" kinda thing either.

From a balancing pov, from the 13 factions i listed 6 have 2 hullbuster lines as their faction tech, 6 of the remaining ones have fast projectiled guns as their faction tech and only the mollies are the other proud nail with slow projectiles.
So these guys all follow a pattern when it comes to guns, no matter if they use heavy ships like the brets or nimble craft like the bd. As we are all in the same "balance region" it is not to far fetched to wonder why the sairs have no such fast firing option on there own- using flashies is a option for everyone, but only sairs and mollies have to resort to those.

Another point is, which might be nixed in the next version- our hullbusters are medicore on titans, but if you use em on smaller craft they suck, energy to be precise- thus the vision was to get something less consuming(and of course less dps ing ) for our little ones.

Which gun speed you use is up to your personal taste, but there are some things taste can't mitigate, like how fast do i have to aim? Is it hit-scan or do i have to extrapolate -where is the window a slow gun has no chance to hit a target but a fast gun still can. If a ship turns slow and its guns are slow it has a smaller cone of aiming and has to oversteer , too- which causes you to lose options on your maneuvers and forces you to react and follow instead of acting. Some people might prefer this as most slow guns hit pretty hard, some people don't - but slow guns&slow ships are a tough nut, there is a solid reason why so many prefer them and why sairs are surrounded with fast gunners so to say.

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Read about: The Benitez Familia and Trueno Benitez

---Not available for any disco stuff these days(and for an extended period of time to come, too ---

[Silver]

No problem here Silver, the lore pov, weak as it is in my opinion supports corsair supremacy on how to dev things to kill other things with, which at least in vanilla meant snubs&their guns.

From an rp pov, there has been done quite some effort to play out tech research - so it is not a "iwant, but please for free" kinda thing either.

From a balancing pov, from the 13 factions i listed 6 have 2 hullbuster lines as their faction tech, 6 of the remaining ones have fast projectiled guns as their faction tech and only the mollies are the other proud nail with slow projectiles.
So these guys all follow a pattern when it comes to guns, no matter if they use heavy ships like the brets or nimble craft like the bd. As we are all in the same "balance region" it is not to far fetched to wonder why the sairs have no such fast firing option on there own- using flashies is a option for everyone, but only sairs and mollies have to resort to those.

Another point is, which might be nixed in the next version- our hullbusters are medicore on titans, but if you use em on smaller craft they suck, energy to be precise- thus the vision was to get something less consuming(and of course less dps ing ) for our little ones.

Which gun speed you use is up to your personal taste, but there are some things taste can't mitigate, like how fast do i have to aim? Is it hit-scan or do i have to extrapolate -where is the window a slow gun has no chance to hit a target but a fast gun still can. If a ship turns slow and its guns are slow it has a smaller cone of aiming and has to oversteer , too- which causes you to lose options on your maneuvers and forces you to react and follow instead of acting. Some people might prefer this as most slow guns hit pretty hard, some people don't - but slow guns&slow ships are a tough nut, there is a solid reason why so many prefer them and why sairs are surrounded with fast gunners so to say.

Well, although faction lore is a part of the development and balance of assets, namely guns in this case, it isn't a strong argument in this particular case, as you said.

As for the roleplay of developing a new gun, it is nice and welcomed, but such development should be discussed beforehand with the devs/balance team, to come into something that can be introduced into the mod. And then balanced.

Thing is, you are talking about how the other factions have two hullbusters. 'Kay.
You also would like two hullbusters for the 'Sairs. Okay.
But do you think having a specialized shieldbuster plus two hullbusters would be fair to the other factions? Balanced even?
Because they are stuck with civilian shieldbusters, and corsairs would have two decent hullbusters (guns are being buffed after all) and an, in my opinion, one op set of deshielders. (Pls, giev Tizzies to R).

What do you think?

<3

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop

[AeternusDoleo]

Alternate solution:
- Turn Del Cid's into hullbusters
- Add Sair EMP torpedo.

Everyone has the same toys then. Noon can cry about this faction being better then that one.

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Wide awake in a world that sleeps, enduring thoughts, enduring scenes. The knowledge of what is yet to come.
From a time when all seems lost, from a dead man to a world, without restraint, unafraid and free.

Mostly retired Discovery member. May still visit from time to time.

[Silver]

Del Cid's are already bomber guns.
Nevermind they were actually level 10.
Level 10 high refire faction gun. That would go well...... Ye.

Plus, still specialized shieldbuster and 4.00 in level 9.

You failed to mention that basically almost no one flies EMP torp guns.
Like Inferno or that Molly one.

<3

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop

[Blodo]

Everyone having the same toys is boring though. Also I like my Tizonas on my Titan

[cata77]

Wut about Inferno in this line of thoughts? The difference is huge because the difference between freely available civ deshielder with 2 speeds and the nerfed slow tizzona are not so big as the difference in having 1 hull buster instead of two. I could clearly compare the advantage of tizonas over debs with the advantage of having Inferno- ie none for general use,but nice bonus for specific situational scenarios.Outcasts would suck without proper faction guns and almost none would notice if Inferno is removed-same story for 4.86 Tizzona- people would just use debs- not a big deal really.
Second hull buster is still missing...
The truth is that corsairs just need the old 4.85 not-nerfed Gun stats and the Centi buffed to eagle like VHF-they would never get it as well with the current people in power so it is pointless to discuss it. Bringing half thought irrational and self-serving statements as the one above does not change the facts unfortunately.
The facts is that in 4.85 the corsairs had ***** LF,***** HFs and average VHF,average Bomber, in 4.86 their got:
***** LF,***** HFs and ***** VHF,***** Bomber due to the changes made. I am really interested how creative the devs could become to nerf the corsairs even more in 4.87 while showing their good intentions to "balance and fix" corsair stuff.

In 4.87 , Corsairs will fire beans only in slow crapy ships , while Hessians ( devs belowed childs ) will fire nukes in super super super ships . Isn't that obvious ?

I wonder if ever devs would think about having/putting almost similar stats on weapons/ships on ALL the factions , civs including .

Did any of you (developers i mean) fly the Gladiator ? I slower than half of the VHF even it is just an HF . Same with all the sair ships , except Osiris (but with the lowest firepower ever , core the same) . It is easier to nuke the Gamma ( something like happend with the Order) and leave us Corsairs alone with 1-2-3 ships , but don't broke all our equip/ships anymore . They are not the best anyhow ...
Everyone knows you fly Hessian ships and you love them , i have nothing against , but don't destroy Corsairs just for the sake of your belowed faction . Is not worthing . You also , by doing that , make a lot of peps not playing anymore Disco .

I realy don't care if you consider what i put here , my life is not Discovery , but i love playing as an Corsair ( almost 6 years old one ) and i see less ans less sairs around , and many of them flying civ ships and also civ weps . Consider that .

[Silver]

Everyone having the same toys is boring though. Also I like my Tizonas on my Titan

I loved them in my Sabru in .85

<3

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[8:32:45 PM] Dusty Lens: Oh no, let me get that. Hello? Oh it's my grandma. She says to be roleplay.
[12:12:00] Traxit: this is smut stop

[Govedo13]

Well seems that my statement above is wrong if the Centi is in works, having second faction VHF is huge bonus especially if it is light one, well balanced Centi in light VHF form would be monster due to its form, so more different fight styles could be applied. I hope that Centi wont be so hard to fly as Titan- so the ton of new unskilled corsair players could use it proper.
Also according to the guns for me the best solution is to be RP.
Give corsairs second gun, keep both salas and tizzies may be even in 2 speeds, in exchange nerf them to 10% all across the other stuff give them only 75% to FA/Hogs/Gaians.
If the corsairs are proud users of their technology then they should use it instead of other bad foreign stuff right?
In general it might be the best to get the corsairs leaders together and post here proposal to the devs how they want it handled.

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)