Agree to disagree, battleships should have a better chance against 3 bombers, reduce nova damage n cannon damage, regarding bombers vs vhf, bombers 90% of the time should be killed by vhf, after all the allied forces in normandy couldn't fight the german force isn't it? cuz they only hold bomb on it. Unless you can shoot a WWII bone head straigth forward like a missile. I realize that its all about numbers/coding and finding the balance, but theres no question, bombers should changed.
Maybe you think that they shouldn't, but from what i've seen most people support this change, and by all means it doesn't mean we all suck with fighters.
1. BS pilots should be smart enough to fly with skilled fighter escorts so that they are not ganked by bombers, and should otherwise learn how to use flaks effectively.
2. Fighter pilots should put some time in practicing against Bombers in 1v1 pvp, so they can learn how to avoid the insta-SNAC.
3. Bombers are actually just fine the way they are and do what they are meant to do, and for some factions...are their only hope for fighting against the cap-spammers.
1. The problem is even when pitted against a cap with escorts bombers can dodge and fire their torpedos for long enough to take down the cap. Some bombers have fighter-like agility, they take time to drain for any fighter; and the bomber pilot only have to think about aligning ship and shooting at stuff every once in a while. With a nova they don't even have to aim, just wait for the cooldown and point the ship in the general direction of the cap. It's just too easy compared to the amount of damaged dished out. Also there's a threshold on flaks, you can only handle that many coordinated nova bombers before the flaks get outbombed by streams of novas, no matter your skill or number of flak turrets.
2. 1 vs 1 is one thing, but I specifically mentioned group fights where bombers truly shine. But even in 1 v 1 the fighter pilot have to be on his toes constantly until the bomber is drained for it's last b/b because 1 measly hit can end it all instantly. The bomber pilot can take it much more easy because it will take more than just 1 mistake for him to get killed. SNAC is a supreme anti-snub weapon, and I think that is odd.
3. A bomber with force_ori or whatever set like FW guns on caps and gunboats would have almost as easy a time hitting capital ships but have a much harder time hitting snubs, although it would still be possible - just harder with no more autoaim. It would hardly make a difference for non-cap factions.
Quote:1. The problem is even when pitted against a cap with escorts bombers can dodge and fire their torpedos for long enough to take down the cap. Some bombers have fighter-like agility, they take time to drain for any fighter; and the bomber pilot only have to think about aligning ship and shooting at stuff every once in a while. With a nova they don't even have to aim, just wait for the cooldown and point the ship in the general direction of the cap. It's just too easy compared to the amount of damaged dished out. Also there's a threshold on flaks, you can only handle that many coordinated nova bombers before the flaks get outbombed by streams of novas, no matter your skill or number of flak turrets.
The problem as I'm reading in your post is that your examples seem VERY subjective to the skills of the pilots that are fighting, which seems to indicate it's not so much of a ship problem. We have seen posts from obviously skilled BS and snub pilots that CAN defend themselves against bombers. I'm not trying to sound coy here, but maybe the problem isn't that the bomber is so bad-ass, but that you are either not that good at flying a BS vs bombers, that you put yourself into situations where you are easily ganked by enemy bombers (in which case maybe you're not much of a tactician), or that the fighter pilots escorting you are ALSO not very good at fighting bombers (in which case, they just need more pvp training). A GOOD fighter escort equipped with a CD can shoot down novas before they even get close to a BS!
Quote:2. 1 vs 1 is one thing, but I specifically mentioned group fights where bombers truly shine. But even in 1 v 1 the fighter pilot have to be on his toes constantly until the bomber is drained for it's last b/b because 1 measly hit can end it all instantly. The bomber pilot can take it much more easy because it will take more than just 1 mistake for him to get killed. SNAC is a supreme anti-snub weapon, and I think that is odd.
Any snub pilot needs to be on his/her toes in any fight. That's not indicative of a problem. What's wrong with bombers shining in group fights? The whole purpose of group fights is that the groups should be balanced to have the most effective ships for the task at hand. You organize your groups based on your intended target. Try hunting bombers in a group of HFs armed with Canonball missles. As for the SNAC, I don't think it's any more a supreme anti-snub weapon than a Mortar or a Mini-Razor.
Quote:3. A bomber with force_ori or whatever set like FW guns on caps and gunboats would have almost as easy a time hitting capital ships but have a much harder time hitting snubs, although it would still be possible - just harder with no more autoaim. It would hardly make a difference for non-cap factions.
Maybe I'm just ignorant of the whole autoaim problem with SNACS, because I certainly miss quite a few shots during a dogfight.
When playing, I always follow the wise words of Hasteric.
Quoting something he has said to me:
Quote:A skilled fighter pilot can kill a bomber
Expanding upon that, what it basically means is: If you're careful with what you do, don't make stupid moves like jousting straight or boxing when your shield is down and generally staying out of your targets snac aim 'box' you should be ok.
My strategy for dealing with bombers:
-Joust until they get my shield down or until it looks like it's about to go down
-After that I joust diagonally below or above your target
And usually, you will be faster than the bomber. Use this to your advantage. Getting behind the bomber pilot is key for survival.
I've probably said obvious things, but as long as you take them into account you can take down bombers no problem.
Depending on your skill will alter the time it takes for you to kill them (it can take me a while q.q).
...but bomber TS.... god damn. That shiz needs to get removed.
Quote:EDIT: Although ye, let's see what 4.87 brings.
True enough!
One nice fix might be to make Solaris Gatling Turrets have a bit more damage or fire at a faster rate, and then maybe BS pilots would use them more. Or, maybe make them available to cruisers as well. Cruiser missles combined with higher damage gatling turrets could make a very effective anti-bomber/snub platform.
I never said bombers are invincible, and fighters will beat bombers in most cases in 1 vs 1 fights where the fighter pilot can divert his full attention to the bomber (unlike group fights where bombers are good for shooting people in their backs when they are busy fighting others) but that hardly matters when the bomber have plenty of time to whack their capital ship target before dying to escort fighters. I was also thinking from the perspective of the bomber pilot, ie I find it very easy personally when I fly bombers against caps, as well as finding correctly flown bombers very troublesome when I fly a BS with escorts. It's not a case of "I suck pls nerf all", at least I don't think so. And I do still think it is odd that a distinctive anti-cap weapon shines as much in snub combat as distinctive anti-snub weaponry (mini razor etc.). The other classes in Disco are specifically balanced against single classes, and then we have the bomber that can be used for all.
About bomber auto-aim, try sliding past a fighter and shoot your snac right next to the little cross and notice the angle, then do the same and hit the little cross and notice the big difference in angle (much bigger than the actual difference in angle/direction between the two shots)- the snac "glues" to your target when you hit the cross, just like all other guns except fw guns - in turret view it just becomes that much more obvious but the mechanic is there at all times in all views.
Snac is superb anti-snub gun in group fights vs nubs.
In 1v1 if the bomber pilot is not legal cheater(TS/Zoom) the fighter pilot can beat him without loosing its shield if both are equally skilled.
280 speed when the fighter moves with 200 so ye.
The problem is in the lack of skill and in the retarded decision of the Dev/Admin team to allow bombers to TS/Zoom not in the Snac.
(10-09-2013, 10:51 AM)Knjaz Wrote: Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)