Question about Liberty Navy rights

[Sabru]

Now...given that situation...I'd probably make an inRP communication to the Liberty Navy Command asking why one of their own was being all chummy with a Lane Hacker, and then refusing to come to your assistance. I wouldn't expect much of a response....but who knows? Some interesting RP could develop because of it.

this if you do this, you cover yourself and get some RP out of it.

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[Lord Caedus]

// Yeah, sorry about that whole scenario, I was having a pretty bad day and I kind of took it out on you. Also, I may be interpreting this wrong, but since said Lane Hacker wasn't actually DOING anything other than talk to people, I do not have to attack it. I also never said I was friends with the Lane Hacker, I simply said we had encountered each other before.

I know what I did was stupid, so I just thought I would apologize to Rambo about it.

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[Ryummel]

Mike Morse and Burstinatrix sitting under a tree...

[Lythrilux]

Mike Morse and Catherine Raven sitting under a tree...

fixed that for you.

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[JohnRambo]

Thanks for all the answers guys, appreciate it.

// Yeah, sorry about that whole scenario, I was having a pretty bad day and I kind of took it out on you. Also, I may be interpreting this wrong, but since said Lane Hacker wasn't actually DOING anything other than talk to people, I do not have to attack it. I also never said I was friends with the Lane Hacker, I simply said we had encountered each other before.

I know what I did was stupid, so I just thought I would apologize to Rambo about it.

Its no problem, I woulda been more pissed if I hadnt won the 1vs1 against the hacker. Like I told you when we talked this morning, its not something directed specifically at you, but I seen several other official [LN] guys act like they had authority over indies although they didnt have the rank. Talked about this with another [LN] guy already some time ago, and he said the same thing as you, which condlicted with taht rule. It's causing a lot of friction so I thought it should be officially clarified by admins, so everyone is on the same page.

Yep. Offical factions have rights over indies and can order you around.

For example you're also in the official [LN] according to your profile page, and you're saying it too although its obviously in contradiction to that faction rule. Dunno if you're maybe the guy from before, although after I showed that guy the rule on the forum he said yeah I was right. So again this looks like a widespread problem in the navy. Given that you're not only in the [LN] but also in the LR and reavers, it raises the question if you are simply mistaken or rather trying to mislead people into thinking what you say is true to gain an advantage in PvP with all the "stand down" orders for navy indies that are going around all the time.

You can follow his words, or not. If you do not follow his command, you won't get sanction.
But because he is in a official faction, he can report to faction leader, and they request a reputation change on you. Admins will make you hostile with Navy

If they make me hostile to the navy, it really IS a sanction in a way. And I would be getting sanctioned for doing propper navy RP while they were RPing keeping pirates safe in front of Manhattan. And if that happens there's something seriously broken.

There's no rule that you must follow a primary fleet members' order. If you feel like shooting the hacker, freaking shoot it and don't take it to the forums. 90% of the problems on here can be solved inRP.

As I said I tried to solve this "IRP" several times without success. And I'm not interested in the kind of RP it produces.

So how would that ingame IRP solution look like?

A guy says he's my superior IRP when he's actually not according to server rules, and tells me not to follow my canon RP.

If I obey those kind of orders, I may aswell stop playing here cause I wanna act like a navy starship pilot and I'm not gonna RP my navy guy as playing violin and selling roses to a romantic rendezvous between a pirate with a big red "I'm a pirate" sticker on him and another navy guy, in the middle of the busiest lawful place in Sirius. And I'm not gonna let my navy wingmen down to let them die in fights just because some official guy who declared himself my superior officer although he really isnt told me to stand down.

If I dont obey, the navy would be a bunch of guys who dont know what rank they have and who is in command of who, and squabbling and trying to out-rank each other. Like someone here said after a while they could have me set red with the navy if they wanted. And even if they dont do that, the whole Situation would be kinda extremely stupid anyway.

I mean if people want to have relationships over factions which are hostile, there are so many ways of doing it without creating these kinds of situations. The hacker could get a freelancer ID and IFF and come to manhattan incognito, or the navy guy could go to a semi-legal base like rochester or a neutral one like the Freeport in Bering, or they could talk in pm or group chat, or stay out of hostile radar range. But when the hacker comes to Manhattan with a big red hacker IFF and ID and then claims he didnt wanna fight and then the official navy guy yells at every lawful who wants to do his job, its kinda hard to believe these guys dont actually intend to create exactly this sort of friction so they can pretend they're superior players in front of everyone. And again, its not only Morse I'm talking about, this kind of stuff happens regularly.

You don not HAVE to follow the orders of official LN players, but there will also be inRP consequences of doing so, like already stated, LN can request your ship become hostile to Liberty Navy, or they will order you killed on sight.

Now...given that situation...I'd probably make an inRP communication to the Liberty Navy Command asking why one of their own was being all chummy with a Lane Hacker, and then refusing to come to your assistance. I wouldn't expect much of a response....but who knows? Some interesting RP could develop because of it.

Thing is, because of some of the things mentioned earlier in this post, I didnt really think that any interesting RP was gonna follow. Just stupid squabbling, OORP-motivated "RP" behavior, and maybe a red navy rep for me for trying to RP like navy should.

So some admin clarification for everyone's sake would be appreciated.

Can the official faction really put people's rep red for disobeying non canon RP orders from people who arent 1iC or 2iC?

[Govedo13]

Nope.They cant you can ignore them and move on, you can also ignore the first and second in command if they order you to do something that is canon, i.e something that your character is supposed to do and your ID allows it. Also you can report them for abusing the faction rights on you next time. The faction cannot make you hostile to them unless you break your typical canon actions that your character is supposed to do even if the faction leader file FR5 request the admins would ignore it. The FR5 is meant to be used for "rogue" pilots, like LN shooting civilians and corporations without reason or pirating etc.
The rules give too much freedom to indies but as return gives too little responsibility and power to the factions.Reasons behind are clear- none of the both sides can be trusted in long term. Some factions with more rights failed badly in the past as well.

uh skimmed again your post and your joining date, are you Karotta because it is too obvious?

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€œ

Official faction players that are often accused of elitism, never deploy them and have those weird, immersion killing "fair fight/dueling" suicidal hobbies. (yes, i've seen enough of those lolduels, where house military with overwhelming force on the field willingly loses a pilot in a duel. ffs.)

[Lythrilux]

Excuse my post from earlier john, I was wrong.

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[Johnnie-Lapierre]

Seems to me like that navy officer should get the oportunity to meet the martial court for what he has done.
I mean seriously, LN guy was with his lane hacker friend trying to do god knows what, and it seemed that he was more worried about what you, his collegues were doing rather than first finding out what the lane hacker was doing there and fix that problem and then discuss any issues with you. Pretty bad oorp from my point of view, also, a lawfull standing togheter with a unlawfull doesn`t sound that great for me but hey he was LN, they can do everything they want since some of them don`t have their original brains, nomads extracted them and replaced their brains with other brains.

[Durandal]

Oh no, roleplaying. Yes, in RP, the [LN] primary fleet has authority over indies. OORPly no, nobody outside of [LN] high command has any authority over indies. It's a matter of roleplay, and it's kind of poor form to jump to the rules in your defense when somebody is playing their character.

This isn't abuse of power, it's Morse there acting things out as his roleplay dictates.

If everyone played the game as following NPC actions to the letter, this would not be a roleplay server at all.

Yup, because i think it's stupid a Snub commanding a Dreadnought.
Official LN act like they are suficiently good to command a capital ship wich makes me think they are dumb.
They can command my Indie LNS, if they have REASON.
Haha.

Right, because it would be "stupid" for a real life Navy captain to take orders from an Admiral sitting behind a desk... correct?

[Johnnie-Lapierre]

Maybe in the whole story his actions had sense, that lane hacker being an informer, a secret navy agent infiltrated in the lane hackers organisation etc., but from what it is written here, things are a bit extreme.
I agree with the orders to stand down for him being able to arrest the criminal or speak with the informer but I don`t think such a discussion should take part in the front of a criminal lets say.

[12.09.2013 22:11:13] John.Rambo: Oh yeah? Whats your rank in the navy, Morse?
[12.09.2013 22:12:42] [LN]-Michael.Morse: I'm a Primary Fleet Lieutenant for your information
[12.09.2013 22:12:53] [LN]-Michael.Morse: So shot your trap pilot, before I do it for you