revision of the ZONERS faction - to avoid yearly discussions

[Arioch]

@ Jinx.

Your ideas in the original post? I'm intrigued.

My issue is that you didn't chat with the people who are in the official factions. Instead of asking Phoenix, TAZ, OSI what plans/thoughts/hopes for the faction and brainstorming together, then presenting ideas publicly, it was matter of waking up, and seeing a thread that is a drastic change that is blindsiding.

EDIT: With the option 3, truning them into transports, you're going off the thought that every Zoner is a trader. When really, only OSI are the trading moguls of the Zoners. TAZ and Phoenix? We're not traders first, so having transports as our fleet doesn't make since inRP. Now, some could go "Well RP it as something else than a transport". THats the issue we're having now. Ask that to the people who want them for PVP. "Well RP it as something different than a weapon". I use my Neph as a Colony/research vessel. Has it seen battle? Once in 2 years, against a force attacking one of our bases. ONCE. I know I may not be the majority in that regard, but you see my point. All in all, I'd rather have the option to defend adequately against other battleships and not need to, rather than need to and not be able to defend myself. Plus Jinx, you said once that Nephs were created for surviving/journeying/being in the edge worlds as it is so harsh of an environment. Changing your mind now?

EDIT2: Plus, if we're talking about making them transports, first and foremost, by god buff the trade in the outer systems. Cause trading in the outskirts SUCK if you only play a Zoner and don't go into the houses. So that right there negates the thought "Zoners are traders". Where the hell do we trade then, since there is no real good trade in the Omicrons/Independent systems? Don't assume that Zoners = Traders, cause we aren't.

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[RedEclipse]

Jinx, as you said - only what does not satisfies you with Zoner RP is seasons of zoner drama. Very usually it came when some newbie group makes zoner ships, and trying to fly them just as RNC/LNS or whatever. Only difference is Zoner RP is kind of unique compare to others and it does not requires to use firepower every day or even year.

So, from perspective of constant zoner players - what we did? We're developing Zoner RP without any problem, conflict. With every new mod version its still harder to fly as Zoners, because EVERY mod realize Zoners loosing routes, in 87 - there's nothing to trade except some ore. So now you want to finish Zoners, turn us into trade faction with trade restriction AND without Zoner trade routes? No thank you.

So please - we don't need your changes. Head voice of Zoner players - limit caps to SRP/Official Factions. If you still don't like it? Leave Zoners alone, like you did with Omicroners.

[.Gypsy.]

I don't understand why its even necessary to mess with the Zoners at all? Seeing the ships the zoners have to offer is one of the points people take into consideration to become one. If you take that away from people that own these ships it only hurts people.

With all due respect I dont understand these types of posts. They only serve to cause a uproar to people. And it always goes down (for the most part) the same way. Zoner players wont want there ships messed with, everyone else will or wont care. Thats like me making a post saying Liberty has too many ships in there line and the Liberty factions are overpowered so lets remove 5 of there ships or nerf them all. Everyone whos in a liberty faction (especially the players with the ships that will be affected) will be pissed and non liberty players will agree or wont care.

Sorry but nothing good can come of such drastic changes like these. Just my small opinion.

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[SMGSterlin]

To people saying "Zoner factions should decide what happens with Zoners", this constant Zoner drama that has been happening every year since I've been around does NOT only affect the Zoner players, but the WHOLE COMMUNITY.


Thus, the whole community should have say in this, not just the Zoners.

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[Highland Laddie]

Plus, if we're talking about making them transports, first and foremost, by god buff the trade in the outer systems. Cause trading in the outskirts SUCK if you only play a Zoner and don't go into the houses. So that right there negates the thought "Zoners are traders". Where the hell do we trade then, since there is no real good trade in the Omicrons/Independent systems? Don't assume that Zoners = Traders, cause we aren't

Well, I imagine you WOULD be more welcome in the Houses with your buffed transports instead of Capships. Also...don't assume you should be on-par with House militaries in terms of capship availability, because you shouldn't be.

I would agree that there still needs to be more incentive for trading out in the Omicrons. Maybe make Iridium sell prices in Houses better? Or maybe make prices for things like Luxury Food/Goods sell for much higher out in rim territories? How 'bout it, devs?

[Arioch]

I don't think, nor have ever believed that Zoners should be on par as a military might with caps.

But, I do think that, since the Zoners who have made their homes in the Omicrons, where there is a threat of not only human enemies (Speaking of those who just don't like Zoners), but also foreign alien enemies, that Zoners should have capabilities to protect themselves.

With that said, despite people saying the lore behind the cap ships is weak/not relevant, I for one (Though apparently a minority) RP them as such. I use my Corvo for exploration/scanning/research in the Omicrons. My Neph? A colony ship with hundreds of families on it, and also as a giant mobile research facility that operates in the deep omicrons where I do appreciate the defense and weapons on it to protect against Nomads that come swarm every so often. Especially (ooRP) with the rule that Nomads can silently engage in the Omicrons.

If people actually followed the lore behind these ships, there wouldn't be this big of a problem. The lore behind the Neph is that it's a extremely rare, massive colony ship that is able to maintain and protect itself against threats. Wouldn't you want your families protected to the highest extent possible if you were out amongst the unknown of the stars? But because people view that as a shiny big toy that can be made offensive, people are up in arms. Hell, an example is the Marduk, the K'Hara BS. One of the biggest and most powerful in the game. Lore is that they are extremely rare and are the "harbingers" (Forgive the usage Yuri) of the Nomads, and are rarely seen under normal circumstances. Yet they are restricted and you hardly see them, BECAUSE they are used correctly by people who know how to use them. If they weren't, people would be up in arms about them too. So while you say Zoners shouldn't have caps, it's because people use them other than the intended purpose. Instead of as very rare/unseen unless in the deep systems, you see them as offensive warships. Infuriating to see, because those people are causing this type of discussion to happen which ruin the enjoyment of those who can do it right/by the lore established, instead of trying to change the lore to fit their needs.

But, as far as trading, sure. Buff the trading out there. Would love that! But, don't let that mean that Zoners are now to become a trading faction first and foremost, cause they/we aren't. If thats a path you want to go, awesome. DO it. Join OSI or be a independent Zoner trader. But that minority stereotype should not become the majority/what a Zoner is, because we aren't just traders. We encompass large and diverse roles, that shouldn't now be neutered to just trading.

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[lIceColon]

Why not nerf turret slots (severely), and power core (but keep enough for jump drives), but allow zoners to mount 2 shields? That's a serious defense buff.

[RedEclipse]

Because it's not about balance - Zoner ships pretty balanced now. This thread is more about how make Zoner faction less enjoyable to play, to reduce amount of newcomers.

[Pancakes]

I don't think, nor have ever believed that Zoners should be on par as a military might with caps.

But, I do think that, since the Zoners who have made their homes in the Omicrons, where there is a threat of not only human enemies (Speaking of those who just don't like Zoners), but also foreign alien enemies, that Zoners should have capabilities to protect themselves.

With that said, despite people saying the lore behind the cap ships is weak/not relevant, I for one (Though apparently a minority) RP them as such. I use my Corvo for exploration/scanning/research in the Omicrons. My Neph? A colony ship with hundreds of families on it, and also as a giant mobile research facility that operates in the deep omicrons where I do appreciate the defense and weapons on it to protect against Nomads that come swarm every so often. Especially (ooRP) with the rule that Nomads can silently engage in the Omicrons.

If people actually followed the lore behind these ships, there wouldn't be this big of a problem. The lore behind the Neph is that it's a extremely rare, massive colony ship that is able to maintain and protect itself against threats. Wouldn't you want your families protected to the highest extent possible if you were out amongst the unknown of the stars? But because people view that as a shiny big toy that can be made offensive, people are up in arms. Hell, an example is the Marduk, the K'Hara BS. One of the biggest and most powerful in the game. Lore is that they are extremely rare and are the "harbingers" (Forgive the usage Yuri) of the Nomads, and are rarely seen under normal circumstances. Yet they are restricted and you hardly see them, BECAUSE they are used correctly by people who know how to use them. If they weren't, people would be up in arms about them too. So while you say Zoners shouldn't have caps, it's because people use them other than the intended purpose. Instead of as very rare/unseen unless in the deep systems, you see them as offensive warships. Infuriating to see, because those people are causing this type of discussion to happen which ruin the enjoyment of those who can do it right/by the lore established, instead of trying to change the lore to fit their needs.

But, as far as trading, sure. Buff the trading out there. Would love that! But, don't let that mean that Zoners are now to become a trading faction first and foremost, cause they/we aren't. If thats a path you want to go, awesome. DO it. Join OSI or be a independent Zoner trader. But that minority stereotype should not become the majority/what a Zoner is, because we aren't just traders. We encompass large and diverse roles, that shouldn't now be neutered to just trading.

Now imagine that your Nephilim was turned into a liner. A liner with 3-4 docking modules, lots of armor and lots of guns.

That beast would be more than capable to defend itself, however delivering practically nothing on an offensive part.

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BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD

[tyro]

Because it's not about balance - Zoner ships pretty balanced now. This thread is more about how make Zoner faction less enjoyable to play, to reduce amount of newcomers.

to some extent this is true.
the point is, that the faction should be chosen by players, who actually want to roleplay Zoners, and not these who want to get powerful ships to sow confusion, upset other players and spoil the reputation Zoners.